Fatali Plant Won't Turn Green

[Derelict]

Part 3
 
Haven't added mulch -- this is a long story from a bad experience last year.  I might add some as the weather finally gets hot and my plants are fully grown.
 
Some of you have more experience and I look forward to hearing about alternatives to buying soil from HD and Lowe's, also the other products. 
 
Your analysis is encouraged!
 
P.S.: Here's the list of peppers I planted.  It might sound shallow, but I chose them for appearance!
 
Bhut Jolokia -- red, white and chocolate
Habanero -- orange, chocolate and red savina
Scotch Bonnet
Carolina Reaper
Fatali
Bulgarian Carrot
Ethiopian Brown
Aji Colorado
Jalapeno
Fresno
Orozco
Anchor Poblano
 
[End]

 

[solid7]

So I have to ask this again...  Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or is the newer growth in your picture starting to get a bit greener?  I just can't quite tell.
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For me, I still don't like your choice of potting media, but if it's working, it's working.  If you say that the other plants are flourishing, we can't argue with that.  But if any of your plants start to struggle, we're coming straight back to that point.  Dry climates will let you get away with a bit more of a dense mix, with ample forgiveness.  But rain and humidity demand that you keep your mix as light as possible.  We'd plant our plants in styrofoam crumble, if that were feasible.

 

[Derelict]

So I have to ask this again...  Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or is the newer growth in your picture starting to get a bit greener?  I just can't quite tell.
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For me, I still don't like your choice of potting media, but if it's working, it's working.  If you say that the other plants are flourishing, we can't argue with that.  But if any of your plants start to struggle, we're coming straight back to that point.  Dry climates will let you get away with a bit more of a dense mix, with ample forgiveness.  But rain and humidity demand that you keep your mix as light as possible.  We'd plant our plants in styrofoam crumble, if that were feasible.

 
Can you be more specific about the type of soil and any additives? Also, where to purchase it from?
 
Also, did you read all three posts?  You wanted the long story and there it is.
 

 

[solid7]

 
Can you be more specific about the type of soil and any additives? Also, where to purchase it from?
 
Also, did you read all three posts?  You wanted the long story and there it is.
 

 
 
I read every paragraph, every word.  Did not see once where you answered the part about the fatalii plants being (or not) greener on the new growth.  So I ask again... Do I see slightly greener new growth on the fataliis, or are my eyes playing tricks?
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This is the part about you mix that caught my attention:
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used the most soil- and peat-like stuff from Home Depot I could find -- Miracle Gro and the Nature's Care potting soil.

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Are you mincing words here?  Was it potting mix, or was it potting soil?

 

[solid7]

I will carefully listen to everything, but kind of tend to be in the skeptical camp for most everything to do with anything till its reasonably proven out. Suppose its the engineer in me that refuses to be a parts changer instead of a troubleshooter that figures out exactly what is wrong and corrects it vs throwing all different kinds of parts at the problem hoping 1 will eventually fix it...

I can certainly appreciate that. Engineer/programmer by trade, mathematician by education.

 

[Derelict]

 
 
I read every paragraph, every word.  Did not see once where you answered the part about the fatalii plants being (or not) greener on the new growth.  So I ask again... Do I see slightly greener new growth on the fataliis, or are my eyes playing tricks?
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This is the part about you mix that caught my attention:
.
 
 
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Are you mincing words here?  Was it potting mix, or was it potting soil?

 
OK.  That photo shows three Fatali plants along with a fourth Bhut Jolokia.   All three were ailing, all were yellow and stunted, until I repotted them a month ago.
 
The ghost pepper is in the top of that photo and responded well and quickly with new long green shoots.
 
The Fatalis are the three plants from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock.  They have grown over the past month but have remained yellow, mostly.  Some of the new growth, with tiny fruits, is still yellow. 
 
Can a plant be half and half? Meaning, if it's getting adequate nutrients, will the new growth be green while the old growth remains yellow?  Or the other way around?

 

[solid7]

Can a plant be half and half? Meaning, if it's getting adequate nutrients, will the new growth be green while the old growth remains yellow?  Or the other way around?

In short, yes.  However, typically, a plant that has suffered a deficiency or disruption of a non-mobile nutrient or trace element, will eventually lose the old, discolored foliage, and replace it with new.  Fairly quickly, if responding to nutrient deficit correction. (that applies to nutrient availability, as well as ability to uptake)
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A plant with uniformly discolored, but otherwise healthy looking foliage, isn't really symptomatic of any single nutrient deficiency.  And it's not exactly symptomatic of transplant shock.  I'd be expecting to see leaves falling off, or suffering from some definitive deficiency symptom.  And even more specific ones, if temperature were a factor on top of that.
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Your stunted  growth was almost certainly a sign of compacted media, high media temps, or both.
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I don't really know how to call this one, other than to wait and see.  Probably not the answer that you wanted to hear, but logically, if your other plants have all received the same treatment, and responded positively, then this may just be an outlier.  Could be the plant, could just be a bit of a throwback.  Give it a good liquid nutrient at your next watering, monitor.  I prefer to go with fish stank (as Cooter likes to call it - Alaska Fish for the rest of us) but I also use CNS17 Grow for a complete inorganic nutrient. (no need for epsom there - it's got a motherlovin' heap of calcium and magnesium)
 

 

[Fatalii Attraction]

I have a five year old fatalii that has been a strong producer each year, even if I'm rough hardening it off after winter and turn it into a hatrack like I did this year.

That looks like a watering issue. As others have said, good draining soil is key for these, and the last two repots I've done have been with cactus and succulent mix, which I've had good luck with on my citrus. We had a wet June as well, and even with the right soil and no added water, my leaves are a bit blonder than usual.

Let the soil go dry down a full finger before watering, and consider adding a little nitrogen to your next feed, like a little blood meal side dressing. Don't overdo it, or you might harm fruit production. your fertilizer seems fine. Ive had success with similar ratios in my fish emulsion.

I wouldn't do anything drastic. You've had a repot and shitty weather. It's not crazy to have an imperfect plant, nevermind a struggling one (which you don't).

F

 

[solid7]

consider adding a little nitrogen to your next feed, like a little blood meal side dressing. Don't overdo it, or you might harm fruit production. your fertilizer seems fine.

 
Absolutely not true.  A very well versed myth, but nothing more. (unless we're talking about really overdoing nitrogen, but then you've got more than fruiting problems)
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One can continue all season long with the same feed, and see the same harvest of pods as the guy who cycles his nutrients. It's an uphill battle to cut through the nonsense that's been perpetuated forever in growing circles.  There is ample evidence all over this forum, and from growers all over, that we don't need nutrient cycling or "this formula for now / that formula for later".

 

[Derelict]

OK, everyone, this mystery has been solved.  And it was not any of the possibilities that y'all speculated about, but once I tell you, you will all slap your foreheads!
 
Recall that my Fatali plants weren't growing.  They were just stunted and scrawny. Eventually, the plants went brown and I pulled them up yesterday.  Up came two big critters -- big ones -- that I later identified as grubs.  Then I dug deeper and pulled out about 75 grubs living from the surface on down to the bottom of the half wine barrel.  Wow!  It was a huge infestation of beetle grubs in that container only.
 
I learned that grubs will eat the roots of a pepper plant, retarding growth, and one source said that the plant will appear to be suffering from drought or a lack of nutrients.  That was exactly my situation. 
 
So I learned something new.  Especially that recycling soil can be dangerous.  Thanks to y'all for trying, and this business of growing peppers can get complicated!

 

[acs1]

 it was not any of the possibilities that y'all speculated about,

 
 

 
 If there's a problem, it's in the root zone,

Actually, imo,  solid7 did speculate correctly, it was a problem in root zone...
 
So the solution was to pull the plant to get to the  'root of the problem, just as you did.
 
Not sure if grubs introduce toxins like mites do and those kill the plant, or they just destroy the roots not allowing nutrient uptake. But bottom line, your problem was in the roots... making a mental note of this for future reference in my garden.
 
Anyone know whats the preferred method to eliminate grubs..?
 
Wonder if there is any other way than pulling the plant from its container/media to tell if grubs are present in containers before it becomes an infestation....
 
Glad you got it figured out as Fatalii are a prolific easy to grow big producer for me, and they taste awesome....

 

[solid7]

So I learned something new.  Especially that recycling soil can be dangerous.  Thanks to y'all for trying, and this business of growing peppers can get complicated!

 
Grubs can find their way in, in just a single season.  Re-using container mixes is perfectly acceptable.
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You can do preventative pest control, by applying a root drench of something like Neem, at the first sign of trouble.  Just make ABSOLUTELY sure that you use an emulsifier that is NOT soap, so that you don't affect the pH of the mix. (pH of soap is around 9.0+, which is OK for leaves, but anathema for root zone)

 

[Derelict]

 
Grubs can find their way in, in just a single season.  Re-using container mixes is perfectly acceptable.
.
You can do preventative pest control, by applying a root drench of something like Neem, at the first sign of trouble.  Just make ABSOLUTELY sure that you use an emulsifier that is NOT soap, so that you don't affect the pH of the mix. (pH of soap is around 9.0+, which is OK for leaves, but anathema for root zone)

 
Solid, since I'm new, can you be specific here?  If not soap, what emulsifier?  And how much liquid is a root drench?  And do I do the root drench before or after a watering, and how much time would have elapsed?   Thanks
 

 

[solid7]

 
Solid, since I'm new, can you be specific here?  If not soap, what emulsifier?  And how much liquid is a root drench?  And do I do the root drench before or after a watering, and how much time would have elapsed?   Thanks
 

 
I do my root drenches with a little less than 1Tbsp per gallon of Neem, and 1/2 Tbsp of emulsifier.  I would really recommend one strongly, and it would be this one:
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002I5XCK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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I mix a 2 gallon watering can at a time, and just water the plant with the mixture, as normal. (until saturated)
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So you water it in like a regular watering, when it is both a) in need of watering, and b) in need of pest control/preventative.
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You'll do this once a month in peak grub season. (which is probably from June to August in your area)

 

[Derelict]

You'll do this once a month in peak grub season. (which is probably from June to August in your area)

 
Thank you, just perfect.
 
So was pulling 75 full sized, 2-inch grubs out of my half barrel container an example of grubs out of control?

 

[Fatalii Attraction]

 
Absolutely not true.  A very well versed myth, but nothing more. (unless we're talking about really overdoing nitrogen, but then you've got more than fruiting problems)

 
lol.   K dude.  No offense bud, but pretty much everything here is wrong unless you say it.  It get's pretty annoying to read.  
 
Guy had yellow leaves.  Adding N improves chlorophyll in leaves and generally improves the leafy performance of a plant.   It's not opinion, it's well studied.  That's why I suggested blood meal.   Where's it's a stand-alone N fertilizer, it certainly requires some care to avoid overusing, particularly with a stressed plant.
 
Particularly with peppers, there absolutely is a too much, and a negative fruiting (and other) performance associated with too much N, and certainly before you burn anything.   There are multiple studies available online showing that via multiple test subjects, there is an optimal N quanity in feed to optimize fruiting quantity and quality.   Check out the various published articles in Journal of Plan Nutrition. They've studied all kinds of peppers, and optimal feeds.  Try and keep an open mind.   
 
Too bad about the grubs, OP.   Grubs (and often the beetles that follow) can be a real killer on a garden.   I'd definitely throw out all that soil in case there are any eggs remaining, and start fresh next year.  I've read that nematodes can assist in prevention, but I've never had to manage that problem.  Good luck!
 
dR

 

[Derelict]

 
lol.   K dude.  No offense bud, but pretty much everything here is wrong unless you say it.  It get's pretty annoying to read.  
 
Guy had yellow leaves.  Adding N improves chlorophyll in leaves and generally improves the leafy performance of a plant.   It's not opinion, it's well studied.  That's why I suggested blood meal.   Where's it's a stand-alone N fertilizer, it certainly requires some care to avoid overusing, particularly with a stressed plant.
 
Particularly with peppers, there absolutely is a too much, and a negative fruiting (and other) performance associated with too much N, and certainly before you burn anything.   There are multiple studies available online showing that via multiple test subjects, there is an optimal N quanity in feed to optimize fruiting quantity and quality.   Check out the various published articles in Journal of Plan Nutrition. They've studied all kinds of peppers, and optimal feeds.  Try and keep an open mind.   
 
Too bad about the grubs, OP.   Grubs (and often the beetles that follow) can be a real killer on a garden.   I'd definitely throw out all that soil in case there are any eggs remaining, and start fresh next year.  I've read that nematodes can assist in prevention, but I've never had to manage that problem.  Good luck!
 
dR

 
Thanks for the advice.  But it's my sense that this was a grub issue first and foremost.  My Fatali plants went from leaves that never turned green to getting more and more scraggly, and then dead, until I pulled them up and discovered the huge number of grubs.  One resource online said that plants in grub-infested containers have slow or sparse growth, they resemble plants with drought stress, and that grub activity might kill the plant.  That was entirely my problem. 
 
A few other plants have inexplicably had poor growth yet have been producing peppers.  I don't want to dig them up, but I found a few grubs in each of the containers in places where I could dig without killing the roots.  So I'm guessing that most of my issues are grubs and will treat them with a Neem oil drench as Solid7 suggested.  If the other three containers recover and begin to thrive, then I will have my answer of course.
 
Again, thanks for your perspective on nitrogen.  Anything I learn here goes into a library which will benefit me enormously.

 

 

[Fatalii Attraction]

Yeah.  No question.  That post was narrowly for solid7.
 
Neem is a great tool.  Never used it for grubs, but I'm not surprised it's a solution.   I use it for all kinds of pests, fungus, etc.

 

[DWB]

 
Thanks for the advice.  But it's my sense that this was a grub issue first and foremost.

 

Whatever the cause, it all boils down to the fact your 5-month old plant had no roots.

 

[Takanotsume]

This is a problem I have with my plants in general.
 
I give them the same soil and follow the same watering/fertilizing routines but only some of them get that healthy deep green while the others generally just stay a pale green.
 
Are some species more nitrogen hungry then others, perhaps?