Fatali Plant Won't Turn Green

[Derelict]

This is a problem I have with my plants in general.
 
I give them the same soil and follow the same watering/fertilizing routines but only some of them get that healthy deep green while the others generally just stay a pale green.
 
Are some species more nitrogen hungry then others, perhaps?

 
I'm a newb so this is hardly a definitive answer, but my experience this year is that the grubs were the difference. 
 
They live on plant roots so one pot might thrive, the grub-free one, while the other might languish.
 
I have 15 pots and 6 of them have had problems;  they all had nearly identical soil and treatment routines.  I just applied the deep Neem oil treatment and let's see if the plants in the 6 ailing containers recover.
 

 

[acs1]

This brings up an unpopular subject, examining the roots when problems point to a possible container root zone problem, before its too late for the plant.
 
In the past have always avoided pulling plants, hated doing this. But after learning from our forum, now its one of the first places I go when problems point there. And I've gotten very good at up potting without even losing much fruit or disruption stressing the plant.
 
No, I don't wash all soil from the root ball to completely bare them. In most cases thats never needed if you started with a good media. All I want to do is inspect.  I inspect the root system for soil compaction/hydrophobic soil, grubs, nematodes, root aphids, root mass, root bound, etc.. If the problem is big enough to cause sufficient concern that the plant is going south fast, then its easy to spot root problems without washing all soil from the root ball from my experience.
 
The more I learn, the more realization you must get to the root of the problem, or everything else is just a band aide...
 
jmo

 

[solid7]

lol.   K dude

The very first sign that a post is going to be substantive.

 

guy had yellow leaves.  Adding N improves chlorophyll in leaves and generally improves the leafy performance of a plant.   It's not opinion, it's well studied.

So it's your assertion, then, that every time a plant has yellow leaves, it needs nitrogen?

That's why I suggested blood meal.

So the aggro in your post is due to the gall I exhibited in contradicting you?


 

Particularly with peppers, there absolutely is a too much, and a negative fruiting (and other) performance associated with too much N, and certainly before you burn anything.   There are multiple studies available online showing that via multiple test subjects, there is an optimal N quanity in feed to optimize fruiting quantity and quality.   Check out the various published articles in Journal of Plan Nutrition. They've studied all kinds of peppers, and optimal feeds. 

Alright, then. Quantify it. And is it soil, or container media? Controlled conditions, or environmental? Temperate, subtropical, maritime, arid, or other?

Is there an optimal quantity, or is there a relationship with the other macros?

Mind you, I know the answers to what I'm asking. It just leads to the next statement...

Try and keep an open mind.   

I assume that's what you're doing, by regurgitating conventional growing advice.
.
For what it's worth, I've been involved with commercial agriculture for most of my life. There's a huge difference between what a farmer does in a field, vs what a hobbyist does in a container.

I'd definitely throw out all that soil in case there are any eggs remaining, and start fresh next year... I've never had to manage that problem.
 

There's that open mind. At least everything that I'm commenting on, I can say I've had personal experience with. Maybe you could gain valuable growing experience and knowledge by devoting your open mindedness to a side-by-side grow out with with varying N levels, and a comprehensive pest management strategy. (both of which I, myself, have done).

 

[solid7]

Yeah.  No question.  That post was narrowly for solid7.
 

I don't even know what that nonsense means. But with 13 posts here, how many people have you actually helped, that can vouch for you?
.
I know a lot of people here in this forum. I even know a bunch them personally. Not everyone likes my personality, but I am very serious about helping people grow better. I have no problem with you having an attitude, so long as there's some actual merit to it.
.
Try to think deeper than what you might read about in gardening magazines, or online. As you can see from this thread, problems are not always exactly what they appear. And one of us got closer to the "root" of the problem, so... Have a nice day.

 

[Derelict]

This brings up an unpopular subject, examining the roots when problems point to a possible container root zone problem, before its too late for the plant.
 
In the past have always avoided pulling plants, hated doing this. But after learning from our forum, now its one of the first places I go when problems point there. And I've gotten very good at up potting without even losing much fruit or disruption stressing the plant.
 
No, I don't wash all soil from the root ball to completely bare them. In most cases thats never needed if you started with a good media. All I want to do is inspect.  I inspect the root system for soil compaction/hydrophobic soil, grubs, nematodes, root aphids, root mass, root bound, etc.. If the problem is big enough to cause sufficient concern that the plant is going south fast, then its easy to spot root problems without washing all soil from the root ball from my experience.
 
The more I learn, the more realization you must get to the root of the problem, or everything else is just a band aide...
 
jmo

 
If its not too much trouble, could you explain each of those root conditions (soil compaction/hydrophobic soil, grubs, nematodes, root aphids, root mass, root bound) to this newb  -- symptoms, what to look for when you inspect the root balls, and what to do to correct?
 
One of the reasons I ask is that the best source I found for grubs did not even mention Neem as a way to control them after the infestation.  I presume they were opposed to a pesticide.   So I really wonder about the honesty of anything I read online now, not just in politics, but even in pepper growing.

 

[Fatalii Attraction]

Solid7. lol. So predictable. Thanks for proving my point.

Also congrats on all those posts and Internet forum chops. lol

 

[solid7]

Solid7. lol. So predictable. Thanks for proving my point.

Also congrats on all those posts and Internet forum chops. lol

Welcome back... Mods let you back, or did you sneak in?

 

[Takanotsume]

 
I'm a newb so this is hardly a definitive answer, but my experience this year is that the grubs were the difference. 
 
They live on plant roots so one pot might thrive, the grub-free one, while the other might languish.
 
I have 15 pots and 6 of them have had problems;  they all had nearly identical soil and treatment routines.  I just applied the deep Neem oil treatment and let's see if the plants in the 6 ailing containers recover.
 

 
The only soil-borne pest I've had a problem with previously are fungus gnats, but ever since I started bottom watering to keep the surface soil dry they haven't been harassing my young plants anymore.
 
There's a single species of beetle around these parts with larvae that are known to pester plants but they prefer hiding their eggs under leaf litter or grass so it's unlikely they've been bothering my plants (Which have no mulch on the surface).

 

[SmokenFire]

Solid7. lol. So predictable. Thanks for proving my point.

Also congrats on all those posts and Internet forum chops. lol

 
 

Welcome back... Mods let you back, or did you sneak in?

 
Ok enough.  Let us remember this is a forum for sharing our collective love, knowledge and fun about all things hot peppers - and it will be kept that way.  Debate and disagreements are perfectly normal and fine, so long as civil discourse reigns from here on out.  Resist the temptation to score points on the internet.  There are plenty of other sites for that.    

 

[Derelict]

 
I do my root drenches with a little less than 1Tbsp per gallon of Neem, and 1/2 Tbsp of emulsifier.  I would really recommend one strongly, and it would be this one:

I mix a 2 gallon watering can at a time, and just water the plant with the mixture, as normal. (until saturated)
 
So you water it in like a regular watering, when it is both a) in need of watering, and b) in need of pest control/preventative.
 
You'll do this once a month in peak grub season. (which is probably from June to August in your area)

 
Just received my Neem oil and the recommended emulsifier.  Since the grubs are so large, and have been thriving, will the maintenance-level treatment you mention above be good enough?  Most of the grubs I dig up are full sized, about 2 inches long.  Or should I do an extra strong dose the first time?
 
Also, FYI -- I've been digging the grubs up here and there where I can, and I actually dug up a beetle ready to fly away!  It really startled me!  Big fella, green.
 

 

[acs1]

 
Just received my Neem oil and the recommended emulsifier.  Since the grubs are so large, and have been thriving, will the maintenance-level treatment you mention above be good enough?  Most of the grubs I dig up are full sized, about 2 inches long.  Or should I do an extra strong dose the first time?
 
Also, FYI -- I've been digging the grubs up here and there where I can, and I actually dug up a beetle ready to fly away!  It really startled me!  Big fella, green.
 

 
I use the ratio solid7 recommends, but only had root aphids, never grubs that I knew of. Have seen slugs slimming around the patio, but never in any raised containers. Neem drench killed root aphids within 24hours for me.
 
Maybe  shake up a little warm water neem drench batch at normal strength, grab a few of those grubs you've been infested with, set them in a small container/box/etc, with a few inches of moist dirt and some old roots from some of those dead plants, then drench grubs liberally.  check grubs in a few hours, if needed check back in 24hours, see how grubs like it..?
 
 
jmo
 

 

[solid7]

Never exceed the recommended dose of pure Neem. More is not better, but actually harmful. I cut it back just a little to stay safe side.

 

[solid7]

 
 
 
Ok enough.  Let us remember this is a forum for sharing our collective love, knowledge and fun about all things hot peppers - and it will be kept that way.  Debate and disagreements are perfectly normal and fine, so long as civil discourse reigns from here on out.  Resist the temptation to score points on the internet.  There are plenty of other sites for that.    

 

[Derelict]

Never exceed the recommended dose of pure Neem. More is not better, but actually harmful. I cut it back just a little to stay safe side.

 
OK, I waited 2 days after a big rain so the plants were thirsty, and I gave each container a good drenching in the Neem oil/emulsifier/water mixture.  Assuming this works, about how long before I will see some improvement in the affected plants, meaning now that they can grow some deeper roots?  Also, how soon before I can give them their regular feeding with the fish guts fertilizer?
 

 

[solid7]

At next watering, cut your fish food back by half, since your roots are gnawed off. Full strength wouldn't hurt, but it's a waste of resources, at this point.

You'll just have to monitor the plant, to see improvement. Climate and conditions will play a part. When you start getting new, undeterred root growth, you'll also get new foliage.