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fermenting Fermentation question

Halbrust

Halbrust

I started a pair of fermented sauces, and they don't seem to be doing anything.
 
Batch 1: 21 yellow wax peppers, 1/2 onion, 6 cloves garlic, 1 tablespoon sugar, 3.8% salt by weight, 2 tablespoons liquid from active yogurt 
Batch 2: 2 bell peppers, 2 jalapenos, 8 pasillas, 4 garlic cloves, 2 carrots, 3.6% salt by weight, 2 tablespoons liquid from active yogurt 
 
Everything was pureed in a food processor, and put in jars with airlocks on Monday 12/23.
No water was added, so it was a fairly dry mixture.
 
I was expecting to see things liquefy and then start to bubble.
But so far I've seen no change at all.
 
Are there any errors in my process?
Are things just going slower than I expect them too?
 
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Most dry ferments like that use more salt to draw out the moisture from the ingredients and are layered mash, salt, mash, salt etc... It may be that it'll take longer to juice up with visible liquid because of that. If you have already added the whey then I'd just let it run its course. You could also try placing it in a warmer place and see if it helps. JMHO
 
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Hi,
 
I don't mean to be hijacking this thread but I have a question also on fermenting.  This is my 1st attempt and I started last nite.  I put a butt load of various super hot peppers, onion, garlic, carrots, pickling salt 4-5 TBL, sugar 2 TBL, distilled water along with a container of peach yogurt w/ the good bacteria in it and blended it.
 
It is now in a gallon glass jar with an airlock and has a few bubbles but not really going to town.  Is there something I could be doing to make it more active ???  Forgot to mention I have it in a box with packing around it to keep the jar dark---only the top little bit of jar exposed to light---just to see if it is bubbling.
 
Anyway thanks and I apologize if I hijacked this some.  I'd appreciate some input.
 
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@ Hal - Without seeing pics I'd say you're doing fine.  I have a ferment that was started about a week prior to yours and its doing around the same thing - ie - not too much bubbling activity.  With the higher salt and no water ferments you don't always see much activity, but don't discount that airlock letting go of bubbles when the lights are out.  So long as you are now seeing the small little bubbles and gaps within your mash normally associated with fermentation you should be good.  Let your eyes and nose be your guide :)
 
@ BP57 - I have never heard of anyone blending in an actual container of yogurt with their ferment.  I have heard of people adding whey from yogurt to help jump start ferments, but not the yogurt itself.  I do not know if that is good or bad and will refer you to others here for more info.
 
@ Both - ferments sitting at room temp (say 70 or so) are not going to be very 'active'.  RM is right when he says ferments do their best work at 85-95 degrees.  I have a cupboard next to the fridge which stays at or a little over 80 degrees that I hold my ferments in, and I've seen all manner of improvised rigs to raise heat for ferments.  Mine usually go for 3 weeks minimum and about 6-8 weeks on average.  In my experience the pepper mash ferments are very much less active than beer brewing ferments that I've done.  The beer was WAY more active than the peppers ever have been.  
 
The both of you have found this site, which means you're already well on your way.  Take notes, double (or triple) your read throughs on the various ferment threads around here and keep trying!  
 
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Thanks RM & SF, right now it's at room temp of 68 degrees.  There are tiny bubbles at the top and a gap between mash about 2/3 way down.  I guess now I have to find an area where I can keep it warmer.....not sure if I can get it to the range of temp mentioned but the refridge thing might work.
 
Thanks again guys.  Sounds like I might be in better shape than what I was thinking especially the tip between brew making and pepper mash.  Thanks gang...Mike
 
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RM, cool.  I read the pinned thread here on fermenting 101 and went from there.  In that thread he said he lets some go for 3 to 9 months...I believe (might have to re-read).  I feel a lot better now....thanks
 
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RM,  I think after I get my last 2 pepper seeds to sprout, I'll use that heating mat and be able to control temps better.  Just move jug to top of fridge for now.
 
Boy it seems like I hijacked this thread....sorry Halbrust----good luck on your quest...Mike
 
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Barley-pop57 said:
Hi,
 
I don't mean to be hijacking this thread but I have a question also on fermenting.  This is my 1st attempt and I started last nite.  I put a butt load of various super hot peppers, onion, garlic, carrots, pickling salt 4-5 TBL, sugar 2 TBL, distilled water along with a container of peach yogurt w/ the good bacteria in it and blended it.
Click to expand...
 
SmokenFire said:
@ BP57 - I have never heard of anyone blending in an actual container of yogurt with their ferment.  I have heard of people adding whey from yogurt to help jump start ferments, but not the yogurt itself.  I do not know if that is good or bad and will refer you to others here for more info.
 
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same, BP did you really add yogurt to your ferment or was it just whey from peach yogurt
 
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Beerbreath81,
 
Yea I did.  I started out using a strainer and after awhile I started thinking that the yogurt had peaches in it---more sugar for ferment.  Also I just kind of thought that the yogurt is basically milk stuff and whey is part of milk---so at the time I really didn't see what a difference it would make---so I just added what juices had been collected along with the rest of the yogurt which was no where near expelling all the whey.
 
I do know that when they seperate milk into the whey and whatever they call the other thing they add retin to make cheese and some cheese is made with additional bacteria / mold.
 
It is my 1st time an as i said earlier I may have waste a bunch of peppers for nothing.  Anyway that was my thought process---hope it works.  Thanks for the input.
 
I want to give a shout out to Halbrust for letting me use his thread....seems like we are both are starting out trying to figure this out.  Hope we both come out with good sauces...Mike
 
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BP57 - with the introduction of a whole tub of yogurt to your mash, fermenting at the lower temperatures might be the best thing to do however I suspect that your mash is still going to go bad. Whole dairy contains protiens, sugars, fats and minerals all of which have something that feeds on them. In addition to the Lacto bacteria's that we use to ferment veggies with contains coliforms which are known to cause the milk to go through a chemical change that makes it go bad. When the whey is separated from yogurt the residual yogurt contain almost two and a half times the coliforms that the whey does. 
 
We all know that lacto bacteria work in an anaerobic environment and that the other bacteria prefer an aerobic one. The problem is that by using the whole tub of yogurt you have introduced a LOT more of that bad bacteria to the jar and my thinking is that it will have a greater chance to get a hold of it before the lacto can take charge. So, watch that jar closely and if it starts to go south just pitch it.
 
Whey has been a major player in fermenting veggies for a long time and I'm sure it will continue to be. More and more though I'm begining to think about moving to using pure lacto inoculations, like are put out by White Labs for beer making. No dairy in them to have to deal with in it. 
 
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RM,  Would I be better off now to cook it (boil), blend, add vinegar & maybe more fruit / sugar, boil some more, blend more and finally heat more and bottle------Before it goes bad or wait it out ???
 
I kind of hate the thought of wasting the peppers but a little part wants to learn if it will work.  Also what should I be looking for if it goes bad and what type of time frame do you think for whether it weathered the storm or pitch it ??? 
 
I appreciate your input and again I apologize to Halbrust.  I guess both of us will learn from my bad if I have to pitch it.....good luck with your project !!!!
 
Maybe add more salt to kill bad bacteria ???
 
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We'll if it goes bad te first clue will be smell. It's going to stink really bad. Good it'll smell fresh and peppery. If you process it now your at least going to have something. If you wait, who knows but I'd say with in 2 weeks you'll know.
 
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Nice info RM.  I too believe that BP's first ferment will go bad if it hasn't already.  BP you don't *have* to use whey to start ferments either, but many do as it gives the process a jumpstart and allows for the maker to use less salt than with normal ferments.  Let your nose be your guide on the current batch, and don't sweat losing the peppers.  Gaining knowledge usually costs money and learning can be messy at times!  Better to throw out a bad batch of mash than take yourself or anyone else to the hospital right?
 
The good thing is that your next batch is going to be much improved, which is a damn site better than my first few (5? 6?) forays into the wonderful world of fermented foods.
 
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