fermenting From Fermentation to Sauce

[Fusili_Jerry]

I have 6 fermentations currently happening. 3 are with habanero and 3 are with serrano. I bought a Ph meter and trying to learn the ropes of making hot sauce. Trying to learn on the go without getting anyone sick
 
I have a few questions that I hope people would be able to clarify
 
1) Can I add fruit in my fermentation? And if so, can I add the fermented fruit to my mash? Or will I need to separate them?
 
2) Can I ferment herbs like basil? Wha about corriander seeds?
 
3) If I am fermenting, do I need to boil the sauce before bottling (including fruit, garlic, onion, etc...)? Will vinegar do the trick?
 
4) Is there a way to thicken the sauce without the use of gums?
 
5) How do I know if a fermentation has gone bad?

 

[Raputin]

Can't answer everything (never tried to ferment stuff with herbs) but:

1) Yes you can ferment peppers with fruits, you can also add your fruits when ready to make the sauce.
3) Boiling the sauce after making it is the easiest way to not make the fermentation starting again.
5) if it smells bad, if there is black stuff on the pepper, etc just throw it away.

 

[SmokenFire]

I have 6 fermentations currently happening. 3 are with habanero and 3 are with serrano. I bought a Ph meter and trying to learn the ropes of making hot sauce. Trying to learn on the go without getting anyone sick
 
I have a few questions that I hope people would be able to clarify
 
1) Can I add fruit in my fermentation? And if so, can I add the fermented fruit to my mash? Or will I need to separate them?
 
2) Can I ferment herbs like basil? Wha about corriander seeds?
 
3) If I am fermenting, do I need to boil the sauce before bottling (including fruit, garlic, onion, etc...)? Will vinegar do the trick?
 
4) Is there a way to thicken the sauce without the use of gums?
 
5) How do I know if a fermentation has gone bad?

Hi Jerry!
 
1. Yes you can add fruit to your fermentation.  A word of caution though, if you ferment the pineapple in with the rest of your ingredients you aren't likely to taste much pineapple in the final sauce.  If you want fruit flavor in your final product I'd suggest run the peppers/onion/garlic/carrot/whatever and then add your fruit during the cook down phase.
 
2. Same as with the fruit above, herbal notes get lost in fermentation.  Same with spices - they don't really flavor much during fermentation in my experience.  If the spices are fresh ground and added to the sauce as it's finishing you will be able to taste them a lot more. 
 
3. Very Important!  You MUST cook your ferments down IF you plan on bottling them, especially if you are sharing the fruits of your sauce making labor.  If you do not cook the sauce, you will not stop fermentation.  If you bottle a live ferment in a couple weeks they could blow up, or they will build pressure and overflow (and or blow out) when you open the bottle.  You can add vinegar to thin or to adjust taste, but you have to cook the sauces down.
 
4. The best way to thicken a sauce without using any gums or additives is to cook it down over low heat and let the sauce reduce to your desired thickness. 
 
5. Ferments that have gone bad have usually caught off bacteria or molds, and they will smell odd or bad and/or they will have mold growths on or near the top level of the ingredients.  A light white, wispy gathering is usually kham yeast and will not ruin your ferment (search kham yeast) but any dark or multicolored molds will almost always mean dumping the batch just to be safe. 
 
Here is a link to a brief tutorial I did a while back that might be of some help.  If you have any other questions post back here or dm me - this community is a wealth of excellent resources that absolutely helped me when I was first starting.  I highly recommend reading the 101 threads and seeking out excellent info from RocketMan, ChilliMonsta and others. 

 

[Raputin]

Usually kham yeast is "safe", but I would still get rid of it if there is many (same than with jam get rid of the first layer and that's it).

 

[AzJon]

So here's what I do:
 
get all my ingredients together and weigh them.
 
Toss them all into a food processor.
 
Add in 3.5% salt (that is to say 3.5% the total weight of all ingredients, in salt).
 
Blend until it makes a rough mash.
 
Transfer to fermentation vessel. I use a Nourished Essentials lid on a wide-mouth Ball/Mason Jar.
 
Place somewhere warmish (more or less constant 70 degrees).
 
Give the jar a light shake every dayto get the mash to move around, keep the fibrous material in liquid, and get air pockets out.
 
You should see more vigorous bubbles around day 3 or 4. Continue to ferment at least 14 total days and give it a taste. I find waiting 21 days yields a better texture.
 
When ready, pour contents of fermented mash into a blender and blend until you form a thick puree.
 
Pour contents of blender into a fine-mesh sieve and strain. Use tool of choice (I use a wooden spoon) to press and scrape sauce through mesh. This will yield a smoother end product.
 
Move over to a new, clean mason jar or woozy bottles. Refrigerate and enjoy.
 
Honestly, I don't test pH. If I'm really worried, I'll heat pasturize or bump the pH with a splash of vinegar. You could probably also use the appropriate amount of potassium sorbate to kill off anything in the mix safely. Fermentation *might* continue, but if you keep it in the fridge, you really don't have much to worry about unless you made *a lot* of sauce.
 
If you get Kahm yeast, which looks like a white/yellow film on the surface of the mash DON'T PANIC. You can scrap it off or mix it in. It's not dangerous, but can lend a bitter flavor. I only got kahm once, and it was because I didn't agitate the mash daily.
 
As long as you keep an anaerobic (oxygen free) environment with high enough salt percentage for long enough a time, you don't actually have much to worry about. Your odds of food poisoning, I reckon, are higher at a resaurtrant than from a ferment. That said, if it smells moldy or "off" (and you'll know, trust me, you'll know) toss it.
 
Edit addendum: If you don't use an airlock, this is also fine, just remember to "burp" your ferment at least once a day. I also agree with SmokenFire about fermenting the fruits regarding final flavor. You'll probably lose a lot of what you think of in terms of "pineapple" flavor.

 

[Fusili_Jerry]

@AzJon Thank you....very helpful. I really appreciate everyone's advice. I have some final questions for ya'll if you don't mind
 
If I ferment peppers, garlic, shallots, etc....and then add fruit to the mash. 
 
A) Do i cook down the fruit?
B) Won't the fruit go bad eventually leading to a much shorter shelf life?
C) How does a sugary fruit (ie pineapple) mixing with an uncooked vs cooked fermented mash react? I am trying to add these flavors while keep fermentation alive 

 

[AzJon]

@AzJon Thank you....very helpful. I really appreciate everyone's advice. I have some final questions for ya'll if you don't mind
 
If I ferment peppers, garlic, shallots, etc....and then add fruit to the mash. 
 
A) Do i cook down the fruit?
B) Won't the fruit go bad eventually leading to a much shorter shelf life?
C) How does a sugary fruit (ie pineapple) mixing with an uncooked vs cooked fermented mash react? I am trying to add these flavors while keep fermentation alive 

Ok, so there are basically two ways I know of to add fruit to your mash. First is to take your fruit (or fruit juice), add some sugar, some lemon juice, and boil it down to a syrup where you add your fermented hot sauce. In theory, it shouldn't continue to ferment because the syrup will have a high enough sugar content to kill of yeast (hence why your maple syrup can last in the fridge for months without molding). With a syrup, you are adding a table spoon or two of the fermented mash to the syrup.
 
Your other alternative is to add dried fruit to the mash before fermentation. That is to say, get all your peppers and such blended up into a mash and add some dried pineapple bits to your mash. This way, you concentrate the fruit flavor that is being added. You might need to add some brine to compensate for any rehydration of the dried fruit bits. I haven't tried this technique specifically, but it may be worthwhile as the syrup method has always yielded me subpar sauces.

 

[SmokenFire]

When I add fruit to a fermented mash (which is often) I will let the peppers/onion/garlic go for however long and then I add the fruit when I begin to cook the sauce down.  You will get a lot more of that pineapple (or raspberry or whatever) flavor adding it to the cook down stage.  when the mash and fruit are fully cooked I will then blend the sauce with an immersion blender to get everything nice and consistent then I put it through a food mill.  The resultant sauce is then brought up to temp (200 ish) and taste tested.  Any final adjustments for sweet/salt/sour are then made and once I'm happy with the sauce I will pull a bit out and test the pH.  If the sauce is solid pH wise I will then bottle it.