• If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.

seeds Germinating, what's the secret?

Pablo_h

Pablo_h

I've got a temperature controlled cabinet rocking along at 28C, sometimes I wait weeks, sometimes more, sometimes forever. I've had a basil sprout in 20 hours (not a chilli but a record though), some of my own chillies take 4-8 days, some take 2 weeks, but many seeds that I have purchased aren't doing anything.

I normally two of my own saved seeds in each pot, and as soon as I get one hook, it's out of the cabinet and near any light source.
Sometimes the new seedlings are at the window and cold, sometimes they are under CFLs, sometimes outside in whatever sunlight I get in winter.

The secret to germination sure isn't temperature I can say, because nearly every seedling pot has had the other seed germinate and sprout recently! Sure it may have taken 2-3 weeks for the first one, and another 2 weeks for the second one, but the second one sprouted with no temp control and in winter with mixed temps and moisture (temps are 6C to 18C here in winter)

I'm trying to get my head around what they really need to germinate. Seems most of my own seeds are happy, but not having much luck with any of the seeds that I've bought.

Ive read about the whole pre soak, hasn't made a difference, tried the paper towel in a plastic container, no action there. Tried a chamomile presoak too.
But some of my own seeds will sprout if I just chuck it in dirt and leave it alone when some seeds I've bought have had all the help in the world.

I guess I got to wait, but I'm running out of time as a lot that have sprouted I've stuffed around learning and experimenting on, so probably can't rely on them to be healthy plants later on (over watered, or got too hot under lights), and I've realised how slow growing some of the chinenses I've got are.


edit: I think trippa linked to an article about dormant seeds needing a change in temps, from 15C for a few hours to back to 28C, I've tried that BTW, again the only thing that sprouted after that regime was my own seeds, maybe they would have anyway, maybe it helps the last of them come up, hard to say but either way it only affected my own mix of old and new seeds, not any new ones I bought and want to try.

My own chillies are habs, thai, czech blacks and jalapenos. The bought ones I'm trying to germinate are hot wax, congo black and many super hots.
It's the hot wax that is stumping me the most.
 
Wow, this has been covered a lot here over the years. Did you per chance do a search? For this info?
If you're referring to C. chinense; then yes, there is a huge disparity in germination times. My experience has been from 6 days to more than 60 days for some varieties in my growing conditions, which are natural and tropical.
My greatest success has been with very fine, washed coir. 28c by the way is minimal, IME. Not less than 32 seems good. Cheers.
 
I was going to let this thread die, as it was buried before the server crash and I was going to leave it there.
Oh well, I'll just say that in the past few days many seedlings have sprouted, even if it took them 3 weeks.
Many haven't, and many may not ever.
So disregard this thread.
 
Are you measuring the air temp or the soil temp. All you really need for germination in my opinion is moisture and proper temps. The paper towel method is usually quite foolproof as long as you don't over water and keep a proper temp
 
It also helps to be clean with the baggie/paper towel method.
Wash your hands before you start and use a clean surface.
 
I been having hap-hazard germ rates as well. Fresh seed mah, two year old seed up in a week.
Dormancy seems to be an issue but i'm too lazy to care for that at the moment, if it pops it pops if it doesn't it doesn't. :D
 
Trippa said:
you mean this link Pablo??

Germination Theory

Its a good read for sure for the avid chilli grower who may be having issues with germination of a particular type of seed
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the one.

VI. Comment

It would appear that no special precautions are necessary for the light environment because although incandescent light is inhibitory the fluorescent light sources likely to be used in germination cabinets do not inhibit Capsicum seed germination - but neither are they reported to promote germination (9). Nevertheless if at all possible the light regime given in Chapter 6 should be provided.

Non-dormant seeds of all Capsicum spp. germinate well when tested over the constant temperature range 15°-30°C (1,3,4,6,7,15,16) and non-dormant seeds of C. baccatum also germinate fully at 10°C and 13°C (6,11). The alternating temperature regimes 15°/30°C, 15°/27°C or 20°/30°C promote the germination of dormant seeds of C. annuum, C. baccatum, C. chinense, C. frutescens and C. pubescens quite substantially (6,16). Dormant seeds of C. annuum var minimum, C. baccatum and C. chinense fail to germinate when tested at constant temperatures of 15° to 30°C for up to 60 days, but germinate promptly when transferred to the alternating temperature regime 30°/15°C (16h/8h) (16). Consequently it is suggested that the AOSA/ISTA prescribed alternating temperature regime of 20°/30°C (16h/8h) is likely to be satisfactory for most gene bank purposes, but that the regime 30°/15°C (16h/8h) provided for more than 14 days may be preferable for the most dormant seeds.
Click to expand...

As I said before, I often place 2-3 seeds in a pot, and keep the temps at 28C. Once the first hook appears, I remove from heat and try to get it light. Quite often the 2 other seeds sprout when not heated or kept that moist. (I can't heat and provide light at the same time, it's one or the other for me) Going by that link you had, it makes sense, as bringing the seeds to lower temp actually helps them germinate. At day time the seeds would be below 20C as I don't run the light, but leave them near a window or outside. During the night I run the light and the seeds would be heated by the lights to well over 20C.
Anyway, I'm trying that now with all the remaining ones. Turn heaters off during the day, run them at night to be around 30C.
Might help germination, and will save me money on the electricity bills.
 
Novacastrian said:
I been having hap-hazard germ rates as well. Fresh seed mah, two year old seed up in a week.
Dormancy seems to be an issue but i'm too lazy to care for that at the moment, if it pops it pops if it doesn't it doesn't. :D
Click to expand...

So have I in the last 2 weeks or so. Nothing seems to be coming up overly quickly and some varieties just haven't come up at all. Had success with 1 Choc. Bhut and nothing since. No Fatalii's, Bohamian Goat zero and Burkina Zero %. Hopefully I get some better success with my latest seeds.
 
Yeah this is round two for Burkina for myself. Out of all of them a Slovakian "cheese" type popped two for two at a week. Dont even know what kind of pepper it is :lol: When i first sowed pepper seeds it was straight into crappy dirt and chucked them on the garage bench under the window. About 50% germ! Hahaha
 
I might be somewhat new to the growing aspect of plants, but for germination - I am gaining a lot of experience with lately, before the hook reveals itself:

HEAT, MOISTURE & HUMIDITY.

The three variables I can think of. Nutrients in the soil may help, but I use Jiffy Pellets.
Heat needs to be 22 degrees for Annums and 28-30 degrees for Chinenses. This is actually VERY easy to achieve when you think about it methodically, especially cause humidity is an important variable. You can seal a container or sealable sandwich bag to increase the humity and heat without any heat source. Make sure the moisture levels are medium, you don't want too much moisture or it will "waterlog". you also don't want it to dry out.

Viable seeds will soften up with the heat, and the water will steep into the cracks and the seed absorbs the moisture and sprouts.... Fairly simple.
Sealable sandwich bag works very well, put a jiffy in it, and put it under a bedlight or on your fridge or somewhere warm. Seeds from a good source will increase your chances of germination.

I know, germination was a tough point for me to overcome, I'm working on the next part - raising the seedlings to strength enough to endure outside conditions, as I have already raised one to full strength.

Goes to show, we are all learning, some more than others, granted. but don't rush it, take time to get each process right :)
 
I didn't mention before, and it hasn't clicked until after I started this thread and remembered trippas link, but I am in refrigeration and have worked on germination fridges at botantical laboratories. They definitely don't keep a constant temp. Timers normally run heating and cooling, and lights to change the temps and light on them. So I think keeping one constant temp isn't beneficial. As the link states, what's going to readily germinate, will germinate at 15C anyway.

edit: But I've run out of 50mm seedling pots, and have nowhere near enough 100mm pots for repotting in the future if 50 seedlings make it through, so I hit up grand pa rons ebay store for more of them and bought some jiffys to try for the first time as well.
 
I learned something new....Incandescent light inhibits germination...or at least I got that out of the article...and I never heard that before..
 
Am I reading this wrong?

"It would appear that no special precautions are necessary for the light environment because although incandescent light is inhibitory the fluorescent light sources likely to be used in germination cabinets do not inhibit Capsicum seed germination - but neither are they reported to promote germination"
 
No you're reading that correctly AJ, far-red light inhibits germination and incandescents have a lot of light in the red spectrum. http://www.nature.com/emboj/journal/v28/n15/abs/emboj2009170a.html

It makes sense since sunlight in the early summer through fall shifts from blue to red. It would be disadvantageous for seeds to germinate in the fall right before winter, so they probably developed a sensitivity to the light spectra to promote germination in the spring.
 
definitely makes sense AB
 
I (from knowledge passed on from my Grandfather who was a renowned gardener and who I would love to be able to talk to now about propagation) have always been told that the best environment to get most seeds to germinate was a warm, moist dark place. The least light the better.
I can't have that in my current setup but try to make sure at night that they are in complete darkness for as long as possible (ie I turn out the lights as early as possible where they are, which isn't very early unfortunately.)
 
Trippa said:
I (from knowledge passed on from my Grandfather who was a renowned gardener and who I would love to be able to talk to now about propagation) have always been told that the best environment to get most seeds to germinate was a warm, moist dark place. The least light the better.
I can't have that in my current setup but try to make sure at night that they are in complete darkness for as long as possible (ie I turn out the lights as early as possible where they are, which isn't very early unfortunately.)
Click to expand...

I've been doing some more research on this, and that doesn't really seem to be the case.

Abstract
To investigate variation in germination capability of wild Capsicum annuum seeds, the effects of light, fluctuating temperature,gibberellic acid (GA), soaking and sulfuric acid were analyzed in samples from14 populations from northwest Mexico. Germination was inhibited by darkness inall populations studied. Darkness inhibition of germination was overcome byfluctuating temperature and GA, factors which also increased germinationpercentage but not germination rate. Soaking treatments did not significantlyincrease germination of C. annuum seeds, while sulfuricacid treatments had negative effects on the process. Populations showed highvariation in germination response in all treatments, except for continuousdarkness. Principal component analysis differentiated some populations withhighgermination percentage and slow germination rate. Such differences did notcorrelate with climatic variables from collection sites. Given the variation ingermination patterns observed, some of these totally contrasting, we have to becautious when considering the results of studies based on a single wildpopulation.
Click to expand...

http://www.springerlink.com/content/xun85lt06242u308/

The third external factor that plays an important role in breaking seed dormancy is light. Many seeds have a light requirement for germination, which may involve only a brief exposure, as in the case of lettuce, an intermittent treatment (e.g., succulents of the genus Kalanchoe), or even a specific photoperiod involving short or long days. As was discussed in textbook Chapter 17, phytochrome is the main sensor for light-regulated seed germination. Interestingly, all light-requiring seeds exhibit seed coat dormancy, and removal of the outer tissues of the seed allows the embryo to germinate in the absence of light. The effect that light has on the embryo is thus to enable the radicle to penetrate the seed coat. This penetration often involves some enzymatic weakening of the enclosing tissues.
Click to expand...

http://5e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=t&id=8 Capsicums do exhibit seed coat dormancy btw.

It seems that light is at least somewhat beneficial for germinating capsicums, and that fluctuating temperatures are better than a constant temperature for germination. That seems to agree with what I've seen this year. I started about half of my seeds this year in darkness, in a mini greenhouse with a heating mat and thermostat that kept them at a constant temperature of about 85-85 degrees (though the inside was a few degrees hotter than the edges). The other half I started in a mini greenhouse with no heating mat and a light that kept them at about 85F for about 16 hours a day, they were about 70F the other 8 hours when the light was off. Without a doubt, the ones under the light with no heating mat germinated better than the ones on the heating mat at ~85F 24 hours a day.

Of course germinating pepper seeds is not rocket science and good results can be obtained in a lot of ways that may not necessarily be ideal, but it's interesting (at least to me) and might be helpful to some who might be trying to max out the variables.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top