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greenhouse Greenhouse (with HPS) vs Fluorescent Grow Room Experiment

theghostpepperstore

theghostpepperstore

So since I now have two completely different controlled environments to start plants, I decided it was time to run an experiment. I know there has been alot of talk about lighting setups recently so I came up with an experiment that can provide some insight and not interfere with this years grow.

Here is what know about my grow room from last years grow:
  • 8 T8 bulbs 32W each, (4) 6500K (2) 4100K (2) 3000K mounted on frame with a pulley system to adjust height
  • 20/4 light cycle, constant temperature of 82 F, variable humidity usually 30-40%
  • Last years plants had a lot of trouble being hardened off, mostly due to my work schedule. First week of 4 hours outside they got severly burned
  • I am able to comfortably house 72 plants in 1 gallon containers in the 6x6 area.

Here is a little information about my greenhouse
  • 14x16 8mm polycarbonite, 20,000 BTU NG Heater, 1000W HPS bulb runs 3 hours a day to give me a 14/10 light cycle
  • Variable temperature, environmental controls set to hold 65 F or above at night 85 F or less during the day, humidity generally 80% at night 30% during the day

Experiment set up
  • I will be watching three groups of plants. 32 Bhut Jolokia Red, 16 Bhut Jolokia Yellow and 16 Bhut Jolokia Chocolate in each system.
  • All seeds were germinated in the greenhouse in Jiffy 7s then transplanted to Dr. Earth Organic planting mix. Plants are all generally at the same size 1-2 sets of true leaves.
  • Plants will all receive same watering and nutrient schedule if at all possible. Watering likely will need adjusted for each system
  • Update progress weekly

Hypothosises
  • Greenhouse system will be more effective overal(considering the size of the investment, it better be)
  • Grow room system will have less pest issues, due to be sterilized beforehand and having no soils from outside anywhere near it.
  • Greenhouse plants will have little or no problems with hardening

Now for the pics! I know you are all waiting.

Growroom ( haven't placed all three set of plants in yet, have to pick up more cups tomorrow )


100_0728 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr


100_0729 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr

<strong>Greenhouse </strong>


100_0732 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr


100_0730 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr

My ultimate plan is to move the plants from the growroom to the greenhouse as a hardening off method since the polycarbonate only allows 78% light transmission and I can easily shade them in there if neccesary.

I would love any feedback as it is much easier to adjust an experiment in the beginning rather than the end.
 
I guess I should point out my ultimate goal is to compare the difference between high quality light ( sunlight and HID ) and low quality light ( Fluoro ). I saw mention earlier this week about chili plants needing less hours of high quality light and more hours with low quality light. I really wish I had a couple more grow rooms where I could test different light cycles and maybe a MH light. Might be a project for this summer.
 
good set up...the only comment I have is you probably would benefit from running a fan on your seedlings several times a day...this is done to strengthen the stems...think of if like you were standing on one leg 10 minutes a day in a wind...think how strong your leg would be...same principle...the flexing of the stem causes thickening of the cell walls...
 
AlabamaJack said:
good set up...the only comment I have is you probably would benefit from running a fan on your seedlings several times a day...this is done to strengthen the stems...think of if like you were standing on one leg 10 minutes a day in a wind...think how strong your leg would be...same principle...the flexing of the stem causes thickening of the cell walls...
Click to expand...

I do have a small oscillating fan in the grow room and a couple of fans in the greenhouse. Its virtually impossible to get a complete picture of the grow room due to the dimensions of it and my awful camera.
 
Here is the first update to this experiment

Grow Room plants

Picture 005 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr


Picture 006 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr

Greenhouse plants


Picture 009 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr


Picture 002 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr

So far I woud call it a toss up. The greenhouse plants look yellow because of the HPS but in reality they look pretty good. The grow room plants do have a slightly darker green color. They all got their first shot of fish emulsion last night.

Here is a better picture of the lighting rig in the grow room.


Picture 008 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr

And finally here is a picture of my DWC experiment that is in the greenhouse, so far I am not impressed with the results. These plants went into the hydro 3 days before the others were transplanted into the 16oz cups.


Picture 004 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr
 
Cool thread bro. how are the DWC held in net pots or what? Don't be diheartened once them roots hit the water the explode guaranteed. Are you running a "dead" rez in the DWC setup or not? Good luck with it.
 
Yes, the DWC is using 3" net pots with hydroton. I made some reflective covers to keep the light off the roots. I am not sure what a dead rez is? I am using an air pump and 12 inch air stone for bubbles. I noticed this morning that the roots that have reached the water have some sort of gelatin like growth on them. I have no idea what it is and whether or not to do anything about it.
 
Yeah thats the reason why its best to run a "dead" resivour. Dead basically means you kill all bacteria in the tub which is that gelatine stuff (cynanobacteria) as well as beneficial bacteria. This will lead to root rot if untreated. So the best additive for it is Dutchmaster Zone (Chloramine) followed by regular bleach (Chlorine). I've only used bleach when I've run out of Zone at a rate of 1ml / 10gallons for matinence and 2ml / 10 gallon for fighting an infection.
 
benzo said:
Yeah thats the reason why its best to run a "dead" resivour. Dead basically means you kill all bacteria in the tub which is that gelatine stuff (cynanobacteria) as well as beneficial bacteria. This will lead to root rot if untreated. So the best additive for it is Dutchmaster Zone (Chloramine) followed by regular bleach (Chlorine). I've only used bleach when I've run out of Zone at a rate of 1ml / 10gallons for matinence and 2ml / 10 gallon for fighting an infection.
Click to expand...

Wow, that makes sense, but the irony is that I was told to let my water bubble for 24 hours before going into the rez in order to let the chlorine from the tap water evaporate. My city water already 1 ppm of chlorine in it straight from the tap.
 
theghostpepperstore said:
Wow, that makes sense, but the irony is that I was told to let my water bubble for 24 hours before going into the rez in order to let the chlorine from the tap water evaporate. My city water already 1 ppm of chlorine in it straight from the tap.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just use tap water as I don't have a reverse osmosis filter and my EC is 0.1 total salts. The reasoning behind evaporating the chlorine off is to get the water as pure as possible and then add Beneficial Mycorrhizae eg: Advanced Nutrients Tarantula, Canna Mycorrhizae etc.
This is from Dutchmaster Nutrients website
[size="""]Why we DO NOT Recommend the use of Beneficial Mycorrhizae (Fungi) and Bacteria in Hydroponics!
Mycorrhizae are beneficial fungi that penetrate the roots of most plants in nature. This symbiotic relationship is beneficial in that the plant provides sugars to the fungi, and the fungi enhance nutrient uptake for the plant. There are two major groups of mycorrhizae: ectomycorrhyzae and endomychorrhizae. The 'ectos' do not actually penetrate the cells of the roots, but are found between the intercellular spaces. Ectos have been found to be able to utilize a range of organic compounds such as proteins, peptides and amino acids (1, 5, 7,). However, these fungi are restricted to coniferous tree species (gymnosperms) and Ericacious (heath/ bog) species where soil breakdown of amino acids is minimal (1, 2, 5).

Endomycorrhizal fungi aid in water and nutrient uptake, especially phosphorus, but do not aid in mineralization of organic matter, and thus have not been found to take up organic nutrients (1-7). Unlike ectos, 'endos' invade root cortical cell walls and can form branched structures called arbuscules which are efficient sites of exchange between fungus and root cell. Endos are primarily associated with herbaceous plants (angiosperms) commonly grown in greenhouses and hydroponic systems (1-7).

In hydroponics, there would be little value to be obtained from mycorrhizal associations in this situation. Their value is to provide improved uptake of water and minerals from the soil / growing media. In a hydroponic setting, the plant has constant access to all the water and dissolved minerals it needs. The mycorrhizal fungi would do little to improve on a root constantly bathed in water and minerals, however may aid in nutrient uptake under plant stress and low root biomass (3, 8). Most hydroponically grown plants are of angiosperm origin, and since endomycorrhizae are not known to take up whole organic molecules in any situation, these fungi would not benefit in the uptake of a root based supplement product containing these [/size]
 
Good info. I added about 5 ml of bleach to the rez yesterday and the water is looking much cleaner today. I am going to pick up some of the Dutchmaster next time I am at the hydro shop. Thanks for the advise.
 
So I am 2 weeks into this experiment. I am starting to see some under-performing plants in each variety. I definitely don't get the kind of consistant results AJ gets. I still do not see anything definitive in the results but I really think the grow room is going to provide better growth due to the constant temperature of 82. The greenhouse is still varying in temperatures wildly from 67 to 85. I am supposed to get a full week of sun this week I guess we will see if they explode into growth or not.

Grow Room

Picture 002 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr

Green House

Picture 001 by GhostPepperStore.com, on Flickr
 
even with the cooler temperatures in the greenhouse, I think the results of the experiment are intuitive...GH + HPS = WIN!!!

I only grow inside my garage because I don't have a greenhouse...if I did, the wife would never see me...
 
AlabamaJack said:
even with the cooler temperatures in the greenhouse, I think the results of the experiment are intuitive...GH + HPS = WIN!!!

I only grow inside my garage because I don't have a greenhouse...if I did, the wife would never see me...
Click to expand...

I think as long as I can keep the aphids under control in the greenhouse the ultimate result will be better growth out there. I am starting to notice some side shoots on the plants in the grow room though, which is interesting, haven't seen any in the greenhouse.
 
theghostpepperstore said:
I think as long as I can keep the aphids under control in the greenhouse the ultimate result will be better growth out there
Click to expand...

lady bugs, lady bugs, lady bugs...here are 9,000 for $24...am sure you will have to pay a little shipping but heck...that's cheap...

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=ladybugs+for+sale&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1333&bih=649&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14364941362559545162&sa=X&ei=umVCT7SBHsrO2AXTwPmNCA&ved=0CIMBEPMCMAI
 
Yep, tried them twice this year. Didn't do alot of good, they decided to hibernate rather than eat aphids. Somehow they knew it was winter even though it was 65 degrees or warmer everyday.
 
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