overwintering Growing superhot chile plants indoors in the winter with an Electric Sky light

Brendon Douglah

Brendon Douglah

Hello everyone,
 
I was wondering if anyone has experience growing superhots indoors with an Electric Sky light? Is this light powerful enough for chile plants to flower and fruit?
 
Specifically, I have some plants that are trimmed for overwintering. I was thinking about purchasing one compact Electric Sky light (the 180) and putting 2 plants under it, so that I could have fresh pods by late winter/early spring. Does this seem like a feasible idea?
 
Also, I was reading that LED lights typically do not produce as many lumens as other lights, but are better for photosynthesis. Is this correct?
 
Yes that seems like a reasonable plan.  The 180 is more than enough light for your purpose.
 
Look for the PAR map data, which is listed in the alternate images.  PAR is specifically geared toward measuring light optimal for photosynthesis, unlike lumens, so grow light advertising has made a general shift from lumens toward PAR over recent years.  Brief explanation - https://fluence.science/science/par-ppf-ppfd-dli/
 
 
EDIT:  I'll add though, that I'm not familiar with that specific fixture and I probably would be looking at other lighting options to be more effective and flexible while spending less $$.
 
willard3 said:
You will need 3000 lumens per square foot of plant canopy to bring a chile to fruit.
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CaneDog said:
Look for the PAR map data, which is listed in the alternate images(I couldn't find it.).  PAR is specifically geared toward measuring light optimal for photosynthesis, unlike lumens, so grow light advertising has made a general shift from lumens toward PAR over recent years.
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Brendon Douglah said:
This is one of those things that I got confused about.
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Myself included as the manufacture uses WATTS in the product name.>Electric Sky 180 V2. Oh. And just to twist these helpful tid-bits, the URL CaneDog posted has this to "help" me understand.

you need to know the PPF, PPFD, and photon efficiency to make informed purchasing decisions. However, these three metrics should not be used as sole variables to base a purchasing decisions. There are several other variables such as form factor and coefficient of utilization (CU) that need to be considered as well.
 
 
Now that clears things up CD!!!
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
Myself included as the manufacture uses WATTS in the product name.>Electric Sky 180 V2. Oh. And just to twist these helpful tid-bits, the URL CaneDog posted has this to "help" me understand.

you need to know the PPF, PPFD, and photon efficiency to make informed purchasing decisions. However, these three metrics should not be used as sole variables to base a purchasing decisions. There are several other variables such as form factor and coefficient of utilization (CU) that need to be considered as well.
 
 
Now that clears things up CD!!!
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Yes, it's all crystal clear now!
 
Disclaimer:  I'm a newer user of LED lighting, having gotten my first LED fixture, an HLG100 v1 as a last year's xmas gift.  Previously, I've used HID (MH and HPS), T5HO's and CFL's, mostly.  I simply understood how that lighting performed from experience. I'm learning more about the LED as I go.
 
So, looking at the alternate images on the OP's link https://thegreensunshineco.com/product/electric-sky-es180-grow-light/, I'm assuming they mean "PPFD" when they show what they call a "BPFD" map.  The PPFD (photosynthetic photon flux density) and measures the amount of PAR (photosynthetic active radiation) that actually arrives at the plant.  
 
I've read that a producing chili needs 25-40 MOL-m-2-d-1 (though I personally think most will do fine with less).  MOL-m-2-d-1 represents moles (MOL) per square meter (m-2) per day (d-1).  Take the PPFD map and convert the PPFD expressed as uMOL-m-2-s-1 (micromoles per square meter per second) to MOL-m-2-d-1 by first multiplying by the seconds in a day (86,400) then dividing by 1,000,000 to convert uMOL into MOL.  Then, apply your day/night factor (an 18/6 light/dark schedule = 75%, as the lights operate only 75% of a total day).  If the plant is in a location averaging 450 uMOL-m-2-s-1 per the PPFD, then this converts into 38.88 MOL-m-2-d-1. Apply the light/dark factor and it = 29.16.  At 325 uMOL-m-2-s-1, MOL-m-2-d-1 equates to 28.08 x 75% = 21.06.  While this appears low, I think it is plenty for producing pods in most cases.
 
The PPFD's on alternate pictures are for a configuration of two 180v2's, not one.  If it were me, I would be looking at a 2 light setup.  For instance, with 2 fixtures of an HLG100v2 ($300 cost versus > $400) you could put 1 light above each plant, centering each for greater efficiency.  At 18" distance, each plant would probably get about 375 average uMOL-m-2-d-1 equating to 32.4 MOL-m-2-d-1 and 24.3 after a 75% light/dark factor.  I know this is more than enough light to grow the heck out of a couple plants in a 4x2 tent. Plus you have greater flexibility of use with the multiple fixtures.
 
One advantage of the OP light is the reduced headroom required, suggesting to me it is a premium (cost) light designed for growing in areas with limited headroom.
 
Anyhow, I believe the above is all accurate, and hopefully helpful, but if someone who's more up on LED's than I am wants to jump in to correct, clarify, or add that would be great.  I'm especially curious as to whether 25-40 MOL-m-2-d-1 is a realistic range to support fruiting plants, as that sounds higher than needed to me.
 
CaneDog said:
 
Anyhow, I believe the above is all accurate, and hopefully helpful, but if someone who's more up on LED's than I am wants to jump in to correct, clarify, or add that would be great.  I'm especially curious as to whether 25-40 MOL-m-2-d-1 is a realistic range to support fruiting plants, as that sounds higher than needed to me.
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I started my hydro adventure out back in the day with DIY compact fluorescent kits, which I had recycled from an aquatic plant growing hobby.  My first successful grow was a cherry pepper, circa 2009(?).  The light that I grew - all the way to poddage with - was a 96 watt compact fluorescent, single bulb.  I wouldn't even care to dare to guess at what the specs on that light were.  But I used a ~5500 Kelvin bulb.
 
I'm a huge believer in doing at least a couple of redneck grows before getting fancy.  Oddly enough, if you ask either a grow shop, or a scientist, what you need to get something to grow, you'll get roughly the same answer, but from 2 very different points of view, and practicality.  And if you ask anyone on the site who leans at least a tad bit (or more) towards the miserly side, you'll get the really real answer. :D
 
Probably the number of moles needed to support growth and reproduction, are in no small way correlated to input parameters, and specific growth rates.  If you don't need to grow Jack's beanstalk overnight, you can surely get by with much less light.  Feed them less, adjust the temp, etc, etc, etc...  There are no static parameters to growing anything. 
 
While I can appreciate your math, I'd have to know if that's an independent variable, and how much it might change, depending on any other variable. (to be fair, you did say that you read that - I'm just entertaining the discussion)  I'm guessing there would be a whole lot of control parameters to arrive at such a concrete recommendation.  But I'd be interested in that reading...
 
I can't imagine MOL-m-2-d-1 not being dependent given the number of factors - some of which you suggest - I'd expect to influence it.  And the "recommended" range of 25-40 spans 60% of the low end value, so it's no exact amount.  Unfortunately, that range is just a repeated secondary source, so lots could be wrong with it.  Wish I had a primary source.  Consider the absurd example of giving the plant a full 40 MOL in only 1 minute and nothing the rest of the day.  It's intuitive that the period of time over which that 40 MOL is delivered will affect how much of the light the plant can utilize - just look at Podz's success with rocotos during the long, but weaker average sunlight, summer days in Finland where each day's sun was spread out over a very long period.  I'm pretty confident though, that if you hit that 25-40 range with a standard range light/dark schedule you'll have enough light in most any scenario and probably too much in some.  
 
Your experience with growing the Cherry pepper under 96w CFL at 5,500K is a good example of production with lower light (and perhaps less than optimal wavelength making it effectively even lower). Just this last winter I was fruiting 8+ plants simultaneously under a 48" 6-bulb T5HO fixture with only 3 bulbs in it, so roughly 150w.  I kept the plants quite small, but when I look at examples like this it causes me to think that 25-40 may be ideal for big plants, but it's not in any way a minimum range to get pods produced.  I've even fruited Bonchi under a 36w CFL, no problem.
 
Distance is another factor that comes into play - distance of the light from the plant and distance due to how much of the height of the plant is foliage-bearing.  The PPFD's are based on the distance of the light to the top of the plants, as PAR degrades over distance. There's a big difference between the average intensity a plant that's all canopy will receive from overhead lighting compared to one that's a 3 foot tall bush with even foliage throughout.
 
I think that what I was really trying to get at with my other post, was that if you want to know how much light you really need, you probably need to concretely define your goals, and specify what you're willing to do to get your plant to put on pods.
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- will you be pruning?
- are you looking for optimal growth within your space, or are you looking for maximal growth?
- how carefully are you controlling your environmental parameters?
- will the plant live under the light forever?
.
There are lots and lots of questions that I would ask, prior to engaging the exercise of indoor growing.  This was just a sampling.  
.
It just needs to be said, that the more you try to push towards maximal growth and production, the more carefully you'll want to consider your starting point.  If you just want to achieve "creamy center" growth and production, that's very easily attainable with less than optimal inputs. :D
 
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