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Growing veggies in humus

W

wordwiz

Can it be done? The stuff is very old horse manure that had some straw in it. It would be about 8" thick in a raised bed. Under it is 8-10" of compost and under the compost is 6-8" of fill dirt.

Or, if I can get it, would I be better off trying to mix the humus with good topsoil and/or more compost?

Mike
 
Humus is great but I'd probably mix it with some loose, well drained material and you'll probably need some less aged manure/compost or other fertilizer source. Is this for containers or your raised beds?
 
Yeah, it is. But it will not be a completely organic grow. As soon as I get it filled (hopefully Thursday) I will add about 50 pounds of 10-10-10 fert to it, rake it in and let it sit for at least one soaking rain before sowing anything.

What's a good well-drained material? Perlite, pine needles or such or loose top soil or a potting mix?

Mike
 
Horse manure, even when quite aged always seems to contain lots of weed seeds so you might want to use something different for the top few inches and/or a mulch to help with this problem
I like to add some perlite or sometimes sand in my home-made mixes as well as some used soil from last year's container plants(mostly promix or peat with manure or compost)
I've also been experimenting with using sawdust in my mixes, just trying to find a use for my byproducts.
 
Derek,

Weeds do not bother me. I'm planning on the Square Foot method (in some cases the square half-foot) and it will not take long for the ground to be completely shaded. I will not need to walk between the rows so I need just enough space for the plants' roots to grow. Carrots, onions, turnips and beets - eight inches is plenty of room between rows. Green beans, peas, sorghum, potatoes, herbs, mustard, spinach, beans, kale - I don't see needing more than 12" of space between them. Even the eggplants, tomatoes and peppers ought to do fine in no more than 18" of room. As long as I don't end up with a 168 sq. foot root ball this fall, I'll be happy.

It's the water retention issue where I have no clue whatsoever. Some have said I'll have problems with drainage, that it will not hold moisture at all once warm weather gets here. Others are the opposite, that water will stand until it evaporates.

One experience I had: three years ago, when I decided to turn the area that was a swimming pool into a garden, I needed to fill it in. The top layer (~4-5") turned out to be mostly clay, the second layer (~4-5") top soil, the third layer (~1-3") sand on top of mostly black earth, at least for six-eight inches. I did till it, but only to a max of seven inches. If we got a heavy rain for more than 15 minutes, the garden looked like a rice paddy. But even if we got 1.5" of rain, two days later I could walk on it and not have dirt stick to my shoes. And the plants flourished, at least until it got to over 100 degrees for a few days in a row and stayed above 95 for three weeks. The toms didn't appreciate it!

Mike
 
chillilover said:
Woah! I thought the title said growing veggies in humans when I first glanced at it.
Click to expand...

Now that would be an interesting project! Plants need lots of oxygen - transplant them into the lungs. Heavy fert feeds could go in the intestines, hydro would be done in the bladder and of course, those that require large amounts of calcium - it's the hip bone for you guys!

Mike
 
Why are you layering all of these different materials instead of loading the bed with a mix? I'd recommend mixing the manure with the top soil and the compost and adding builders sand for drainage and aeration.
 
SS,

Because I really don't have much more than a clue what I am doing. OK, not exactly, I've been getting advice from a Master Gardener from the Extension Service. I do admit, my background says "go find some great ground, use a loader to fill dump trucks with the dirt, dump it in the beds and plant seedlings. Maybe I'm an educated idiot - a person who knows the basics but not the science. But I have posted in several forums about growing in raised beds.

To maybe explain my madness method:
The fill dirt at the bottom. Completely free, will drain but not quickly, will conduct cooler temps from the ground (an asphalt covered parking lot) to the the rest of the dirt.
The second level. Pure leaf compost, with a tiny bit of small tree branches. Great draining stuff, full of nuits, Free and took up 1/3 of the space.
The top level (looks like it will be a mix of humus and the same dirt as the bottom in about a 70/30 or 65/35 ratio). Will drain, hold nuits, retain some moisture so the bed will not need to get more than an inch of rain per week.

A completely honest and blunt answer - I'm a stranger in a strange land. I can read a bunch, seek advice, test the soil. But no one knows exactly what the composition of the dirt, compost or humus is. Nor have I tried anything that even vaguely resembles this. Worse, half of the plants I want to grow I have never heard of until a couple of months ago, let alone tried raising.

When asked to do this I should have kept my mouth shut or said no. But let's face it - I'm not gonna learn this any younger and I have a wealth of informed people who I can ask questions about their experiences. If 10, 20 or even 100 people decide to start gardening from seeing this display, then I have added a tiny bit of info to our collective knowledge and experience. And if it fails completely, I have not subtracted anything except a few hours of labor from people willing to volunteer it!

Mike
 
I'm sure your stratification will grow plants, but IMO uniform drainage, nutes and moisture in a blend of everything available at sufficient depth is the best recipe. :)
 
SS,

I had a look at the horse manure - it is old. The guy who hauled it said every bit of ten years. A Master Gardener who is helping out a bit suggests adding about 35 percent of clayish soil because it will increase the CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) of the mixture, which is suppose to be a good thing! The humus/compost is suppose to be great for water and nuit retention plus drainage. Between these two layers, that puts me at least 16" deep, which should be far more than what most roots will need.

One problem (possibly) I foresee is the pH of the mixture. Except for pH Down or pH Up, I don't know any quick way to adjust the acidity level. I'll only have about three weeks, max, before planting most things and won't even know the pH until probably Thursday or even the following week, as I would think I would a soaking rain to allow the mix to "meld" somewhat.

Mike
 
10 years, and it's been sitting out in the weather all of those years uncovered?

What is the PH of the water you'll be using?

You can use hydrated lime to get a faster increase in PH, but be careful and use small amounts and day or 2 between tests. It's going to be difficult to mix inside your bed though. Much easier to mix and adjust everything outside the bed.
 
I'd saturate one small area at one end of the bed with what ever water source you decide to use until you get runoff and check the PH of that. If you're lucky, you may not need to adjust at all.
 
chillilover said:
Woah! I thought the title said growing veggies in humans when I first glanced at it.
Click to expand...

Thats funny, I thought it read growing veggies in Hummus! :oops: I was thinking, who the hell would try and grow veggies in another vegetable puree? I probably should pay closer attention when I read the titles. :lol:
 
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