I am more worried about the opposite. Bonnie plants is in every major store and every place has the same varieties. The more big companies take over the less varieties there are to choose from. I don't like spreading f2s all over the place either and won't give out unstable seeds but the one positive thing is that even though the Gene's maybe a little mixed up at least they are still out there for someone to use and try to put back to the original standards.
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chinense Habanada
- Thread starter Ghaleon
- Start date
It's hard to imagine a land race pepper ever disappearing unless the culture that started it either abandons it or is wiped out. Thai peppers will always be grown in Thailand, Habaneros will always be grown in Mexico, Scotch Bonnets will be found in the caribbean and Ghosts will be grown in India.
Winegums said:
I get that and i hope you are right, but think about how/why moa Scotch Bonnets came to exist...
How did the original bonnets come to exist? How did any of our favourite "Land race" peppers come to exist? Some Chili head or group of Chili heads 100s of years ago likely went through the work of selectively harvesting from plants and developed their own strains, looking for genetic mutations and other desirable traits that they wanted to keep. New strains like MoA SB are just another land race pepper being born, the only difference is that you're seeing happen in your life time. It basically happens when a culture decides to adopt the strain as a wide spread crop that is grown for years and years.Bicycle808 said:
If you look at the history of apple varieties in Britain you'll see that the staple varieties today are not what they were 100s of years ago. Things change as a culture changes and also as our global community changes. There are millions of fruit and vegetable strains that have been lost to history in favour of a better variety that grows faster or is more resistant to pests.
Winegums said:
This is a good point. I'm sure many of the currently classified "landrace" peppers we love and are growing are likely natural crosses and/or purposeful hybrids from years past. I also get where bicycle is coming from with everyone racing to be the newest hottest bumpiest wickedest most big deal and sharing out non stabilized variants along the way. Ultimately I trust nature to sort it out.
Ghaleon said:
See; Aleppo peppers after the Syrian war broke out.
My Aleppos all podded long before anything else. Im only saving those pods for seeds. The seeds i used came from Ed and he only grew Aleppo for that batch.
Now i have a Antep Aci Dolma i need to deal with before it flowers. Im not even sure how good its lineage is but i need to make the effort. Its a hybrid anyway but supposed to be stable.The seeds didnt come from Fords soooooo.
Personally i didnt even want to bother with a hybrid heatless hab. I went straight to the landrace varieties and they look correct. If i was going to cross a heatless "hab" i would start there instead of starting with a hybrid. These CCN Aji Dulce #1s are a pretty cool looking pod sofar. They certainly look like a hot chinense.
Now i have a Antep Aci Dolma i need to deal with before it flowers. Im not even sure how good its lineage is but i need to make the effort. Its a hybrid anyway but supposed to be stable.The seeds didnt come from Fords soooooo.
Personally i didnt even want to bother with a hybrid heatless hab. I went straight to the landrace varieties and they look correct. If i was going to cross a heatless "hab" i would start there instead of starting with a hybrid. These CCN Aji Dulce #1s are a pretty cool looking pod sofar. They certainly look like a hot chinense.
Winegums said:
Sure, original Bonnets and other landraces were cultivated via crosses and/or careful selection over many years, most often long ago. I get that, and i think it''s awesome if/when modern-day ppl are trying to carefully set their own strains. I have no beef with new varieties in general, and no gripe with positive progress, at all. However, I disagree re: the MOA SB's origins. The fact is, the Ministry decided to try to set a "correct" Scotch Bonnet because all these no-talent hacks and low-ethics jabronis were destroying the classic Scotch Bonnet thru deliberate out-crosses, sloppy propagation, misidentification of Congo/Hab-types as Bonnets, etc... and as a result, there were a lot of sub-standard chiles being offered as "Scotch Bonnets" in Jamrock. They didn't develop the MOA SB to create a new landrace; they developed the MOA SB to save an existing landrace b/c they thought it was threatened by the shenanigans of shitty growers who had diluted and polluted the strain.
My concerns go beyond just ppl's desires to build the hottest and gnarliest peppers; i also see ppl who are trying to develop crosses to make cutesy names for a strain that doesn''t even exist yet, or b/c they are whimsically hoping that a cross will display the exact 2 traits they imagined it would when they dreamed up the cross. Or you see brand-new growers who ask questions that make it evident that maybe they're not yet ready to play ad scientist, b/c they understand neither Capsicums nor genetics just yet.... but they are super amped to cross a Reaper with a Bell or whatever. In short, we've got some no- or low-talent hacks who are going to follow this folly just long enough to muddy the waters and share some seeds. Now, that ain't the end of the world and it is just some pepper plants, so no big deal i guess, especially given that i'm not yet having trouble obtaining seeds that grow true with just a little bit of hunting and cash....
I'm just saying,this is a thing that, if you're going to do it, please make every effort to do it right... and if you do it wrong, please make every effort to mitigate the damage
I myself am working on my own cross and fully realize that it is not an easy thing to do and it's not going to be "done" for several years. I started the cross as a novice but in the past year I've picked up quite a bit of knowledge which only makes me more excited for my cross. I don't see why you're so against people having fun with what they're doing? Making up names and hoping for genetic traits to be passed on are what every breeder does regardless of experience. Why else would you cross two peppers if you aren't trying to get specific traits?Bicycle808 said:
The only harm I can see being done is when someone calls their cross bred pepper by the original name and sends it out.
I mean personally I don't see the point in naming something vs bell x reaper f1 or similar until at least a few generations in, but I don't see the harm as long as it's a unique label. I doubt the older peppers are going anywhere. It's like with tomatoes: are there a lot of hybrids gaining popularity? Yeah, but there's a huge market for heirlooms too. As long as things stay labeled and isolated I doubt any land races are going anywhere.
Well, i have 2 pepper plants that sure appear to be a cross to me. The damn things are loading up heavy and pods look killer. You can be damn sure im gunna save seeds for next year. I mean this sucker looks cool and production is excellent. It just needs to pass the taste test.
If these turn out red then they might have some novelty appeal because all the Scotch Brain types ive seen are mostly yellows. Some seeds will be sent back to the vendor and possibly a few others on here that are more skilled at this type of thing.
If these turn out red then they might have some novelty appeal because all the Scotch Brain types ive seen are mostly yellows. Some seeds will be sent back to the vendor and possibly a few others on here that are more skilled at this type of thing.
That's exactly what I'm saying.Ghaleon said:
ShowMeDaSauce, those pods look killer. What were the seeds labeled as? They do have a bit of that ScotchBrain look to them, or like an over inflated SB7J....
I'm not saying ppl ought not have fun and make crosses. I'm just saying, come correct with it and if you crossed a 7Pot MadBalls with a MonkeyFace just to name the thing Monkey Balls (apologies if that's a real cross someone made; not trying to single anyone out that is meant as just a hypothetical example that came to mind...), you're probably doing this stuff for the wrong reasons. (To my mind, priorities should be on delicious chiles and strong plants... Not on cute names.) And if you're thinking of crossing, another hypothetical example, a NuMex Suave with a Red Savina to make a Hab with heat in between the two, you'd probably be better off growing any of the dozens of Hab types that are already established at that heat level, especially when you consider that you can't really predict what the heat of such a cross would be, anyway.
I'm not saying ppl ought not have fun and make crosses. I'm just saying, come correct with it and if you crossed a 7Pot MadBalls with a MonkeyFace just to name the thing Monkey Balls (apologies if that's a real cross someone made; not trying to single anyone out that is meant as just a hypothetical example that came to mind...), you're probably doing this stuff for the wrong reasons. (To my mind, priorities should be on delicious chiles and strong plants... Not on cute names.) And if you're thinking of crossing, another hypothetical example, a NuMex Suave with a Red Savina to make a Hab with heat in between the two, you'd probably be better off growing any of the dozens of Hab types that are already established at that heat level, especially when you consider that you can't really predict what the heat of such a cross would be, anyway.
They were supposed to be MOA Reds and the shape is like a bonnet. So, im only assuming its a bonnet cross until i see something to suggest otherwise.
Until i have more to go on im calling it a MIA Red
Until i have more to go on im calling it a MIA Red
I hope they ripen up red for ya! They kinda have a SB7J look to them. Did you get'm from whitehotpeppers.com?
