HeatMiser's Keeping it Simple With Old Seeds 2020 Grow

Well here it is - after a two year hiatus, I decided to get myself a new grow light (HLG 100), grow peppers again and join this community.

I decided to it simple this year and grow fewer varieties from seeds I already have. These were packaged in 2014 or earlier so it will serve as a viability test as well.

After talking with my wife, we decided on the following 4 varieties

1 Super Hot:
Trinidad Moruga Scorpion. Seeds from the Chile Pepper Institute packaged in 2013.

1 Ornamental:
Numex Twilight. Seeds from the Chile Pepper Institute packaged in 2012.

2 Varieties for Cooking:
Jalafuego. Seeds from tomatogrowers.com. Packaged before 2014
Chiltepin. Seeds I collected after a trip to Texas in 2014.

I have the following goals for this season

1. Get a decent batch of "hot" Jalapenos. You have to be lucky to find a hot Jalapeno at the store. We plan to pickle them to be used in NACHOS
   
2. Incorporate Chiltepin peppers in our cooking (salsas, tacos, etc)
   
3. Make some powder with the Trinidad Scorpion Peppers. I've made Ghost Pepper Powder before and it's amazing in stuff like Pho.
   
4. Experiment with DWC and Kratky for peppers. My experience is with Dutch Buckets.
   
5. Experiment with outdoor hydroponics. Success here means I'll be able to plant more peppers in future years
   
6. Try crossing peppers. Always been curious, never really tried it. This year, it's happening.
   
7. Growing a Trinidad Scorpion in my office at work. Dare my boss to try one…

The plan is as follows:

• 1 Trinidad Scorpion and 1 Jalafuego in 5 gal DWC indoors.
• Grow 1 Chiltepin and 1 Numex Twilight indoors in smaller Kratky containers.
• Grow 1 Trinidad Scorpion in a 5 gal DWC at work

As the weather improves, I'll set up 1 Trinidad Scorpion and 1 Jalafuego in 5 gal Kratky bucket outdoors. I'll also clone as many plants as I can get away with and put them in soil containers outside.

That's it for plans…

Here's the actual progress so far

12/20/2019 -
• Started soaking Chiltepin seeds in a weak solution of chamomille tea
• Planted Trinidad Moruga Scorpion, Jalafuego and Numex Twilight seeds in rockwool cubes. 2 seeds of each per cube. Placed on a heat mat inside an airtight container with some water on the bottom for moisture

12/21/2019
• Planted Chiltepin seeds
• 3 rockwool cubes with seeds soaked in weak chamomille tea solution for about 25 hours
• 3 rockwool cubes with seeds soaked in 9 parts water, 1 part bleach solution for 5 minutes

12/23/2019
• Noticed a hook in one of the Jalafuego cubes

12/26/2019
• Hooks on all 3 Jalafuego cubes
• One Twilight cube has a hook

12/27/2019
• Hooks on all 3 Twilight cubes. One of them is a bit leggy
• Noticed one Chiltepin seed starting to sprout, from the cube that was soaked in bleach
• Transferred Jalafuego and Twilights to the light and gave them some food, General Hydroponics mild vegetative solution

12/28/2019
• One Jalafuego cube has 2 seedlings, new hook came out.

12/29/2019
• One Chiltepin hook coming out of the cube. Moved the cube to the light
• All 6 Jalafuego seeds have sprouted. 3 seedlings are now upright and 3 hooks are coming out. Germination rate is 6/6

12/30/2019
• Hook from Trinidad Moruga Scorpion came out. Moved to light

1/1/2020
• Hook from Chiltepin seed in bleach solution. Moved to light
• Hook from Chiltepin seed in chamomile tea came out. Moved to light

1/2/2020
• Last Twilight sprouted. Germination rate is 6/6
• Two more Trinidad Moruga Hooks

1/3/2020
• Moved two Trinidad Moruga cubes to light

1/5/2020
• Another Trinidad Moruga sprouted. Germination rate is 4/6

1/7/2020
• Roots from Jalafuego, Twilight and Chiltepin started poking through the bottom of the rockwool cubes. Moved the best plants to their own individual kratky container. Using Mild Vegetative solution from Flora 3 Part solution
• One T5 bulb died. Changed the light to the HLG 100.

1/9/2020
• New Trinidad Moruga Sprouted. Germination Rate: 5/6
• Added an air stone to the Jalafuego Kratky container turning it into a DWC.

1/10/2020

• Moved another Jalafuego to its own Kratky container

Thanks for reading all of this... I'll be posting some pictures soon!

 

[PaulG]

Hey, HM. If you are wary of more NEEM spraying, I
would seriously suggest investing in some predatory
mites. You could spray once more while waiting for
them, but in the long run, they will keep the mites
under control, especially if there are not a lot. I am
giving advice without ever having used them, so
excuse my arrogance, but it Is something I would
think seriously about if I were in your position. Plus,
they control lots of other pests.
 
Glad to hear that they seem to be knocked down.

 

[Siv]

 
Thanks Siv, it seems to be working so far. However, as the plants grow, the effectiveness of each spraying is going to diminish. Just a matter of having more surface area/foliage for the bugs to hide under... 
 
I wonder how people here spray effectively, and at what point they decide the plants have been treated enough. I also wonder how safe Neem really is to use - if there's any precaution to take and stuff like that. People swear by it and I haven't found anything negative online, but some part of me is just skeptical of using the stuff - even when store-bought produce has been sprayed with worse things. 
 
I've been checking for mites on a daily basis by picking a few leaves at random from several plants. At this point I'm only finding 1 mite or egg a week, so I know there are still some around.

 
Personally, my thoughts are that neem is a plant and while it's in concentrated form from the oil, it can't be that bad. People in India use it as medicine and ingest it in quantity so the tiny amounts left over on your plants can't be that detrimental. In any case, a little washing of the pods will likely remove any trace. I ordered a quart gallon since I have a scale bug problem on some of my fruit trees and given the dilutions quantities, the amount left on will be minimal. I'm yet to see if it will be effective though however I'm not worried about it - better something than nothing.

 

[HeatMiser]

Hey, HM. If you are wary of more NEEM spraying, I
would seriously suggest investing in some predatory
mites. You could spray once more while waiting for
them, but in the long run, they will keep the mites
under control, especially if there are not a lot. I am
giving advice without ever having used them, so
excuse my arrogance, but it Is something I would
think seriously about if I were in your position. Plus,
they control lots of other pests.
 
Glad to hear that they seem to be knocked down.

 
Thanks Paul, 
 
Agreed, as it becomes harder to spray effectively due to more foliage, using predatory mites makes complete sense, since they will reach places I won't be able to, and will work day and night to keep the numbers at bay. 
 
Do you have any seller you'd recommend? Prices seem to be around $40 - $90 on Amazon.
 
Now, the plants (at least the jalafuegos) are about to set flowers again - I think I'll let that be the true test to whether I continue this grow or not. If the pods turn out all corked and messed up like the previous ones (might be the case given ack's experience), there will be little reason/justification to invest more time and money on this grow, when the problem can easily go away by eliminating all plants, waiting about month for any stragglers to starve to death and start a new grow (at least that's my current way of thinking).
 
It might seem drastic, but if I were to end this today, I wouldn't be completely disappointed in what I got out of it (even if no more pods are harvested), which is mostly an escape from current world events (mental health), experience in diagnosing and dealing with this pest (and all other probable causes we tried earlier - nutrient deficiencies, lighting, etc, etc, etc...) so future grows don't get to this point. I guess people following this glog could also see the many different ways plants exhibit the damage this pest causes, how bad things can get (and how it can take growers for a ride    ), how to deal with the issue and what can be expected with treatment. 
 
I've also gotten to interact with new people with similar interests through the community, which is one of the best things I took from this grow...

 

[HeatMiser]

 
Personally, my thoughts are that neem is a plant and while it's in concentrated form from the oil, it can't be that bad. People in India use it as medicine and ingest it in quantity so the tiny amounts left over on your plants can't be that detrimental. In any case, a little washing of the pods will likely remove any trace. I ordered a quart gallon since I have a scale bug problem on some of my fruit trees and given the dilutions quantities, the amount left on will be minimal. I'm yet to see if it will be effective though however I'm not worried about it - better something than nothing.

 
Thanks Siv!
 
I guess I didn't specify, but I think it's just irrational wariness of having the stuff all over myself while I spray, rather than on the plants, as I really hate the smell of the stuff. But you're correct, it is consumed in other countries and used in several products based on my research. Hope it works for you!

 

[HeatMiser]

This is the first flower I've seen in a while... just opened today (sorry for crappy pics, hard to focus)

 
Back in mid-May, when I still thought I was dealing with a nutrient issue, I started a plant to see if the way I was applying nutrients was to blame for the issues I was having. I also wanted to see if air-pruning the roots would yield better root growth. Here's the plant right now

 
I have it growing in a 1 gal container. It just recently started exploding with growth and there are many flower buds. 

 
I don't know what kind of peppers are going to come out of this, but my guess is that it will be some sort of thai pepper...
 
The result of air pruning the roots is here...

 
So, it definitely pays off to not rush the plant to its final pot, but let it sit in the rockwool cube for a while until roots start coming out of the sides. I still have to improve the process a bit, but I liked the results. 
 
I will keep this plant until I figure out if the other plants will produce healthy pods. If I get no healthy pods, I will get rid of all plants and wait about a month to let any living mites die before starting a new grow.

 

[Tybo]

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I don't know what kind of peppers are going to come out of this, but my guess is that it will be some sort of thai pepper...
 
The result of air pruning the roots is here...

 
So, it definitely pays off to not rush the plant to its final pot, but let it sit in the rockwool cube for a while until roots start coming out of the sides. I still have to improve the process a bit, but I liked the results. 
 
 

 
Im curious.  Did your rockwool cubes have the plastic wrapped around them?  I noticed on mine that if there wasn't any plastic, the roots never grew out of the cubes.  They seemed to "air prune" themselves.  Maybe I didnt leave them long enough?

 

[CaneDog]

I've tried starting in RW cubes only a very few times, but when I have I've tried the strategy of letting them wait so the roots really fill out the cubes.  First time the cubes weren't wrapped and it didn't work well.     The next time I tried wrapped cubes - I thought the wrapping would help by increasing the moisture content at the edges - but it didn't work well     I just seem to have no game when it come to the cubes.  I'll keep watching you guys who do this well, though, and hopefully figure it out eventually.
 
Love seeing those big healthy root masses, HM! 

 

[PaulG]

 
Im curious.  Did your rockwool cubes have the plastic wrapped around them?  I noticed on mine that if there wasn't any plastic, the roots never grew out of the cubes.  They seemed to "air prune" themselves.  Maybe I didnt leave them long enough?

 

I've tried starting in RW cubes only a very few times, but when I have I've tried the strategy of letting them wait so the roots really fill out the cubes.  First time the cubes weren't wrapped and it didn't work well.     The next time I tried wrapped cubes - I thought the wrapping would help by increasing the moisture content at the edges - but it didn't work well     I just seem to have no game when it come to the cubes.  I'll keep watching you guys who do this well, though, and hopefully figure it out eventually.
 
Love seeing those big healthy root masses, HM! 
+1 CD!

When I used the Grodan RockWool cubes, I left
the wrapper on and let the seedlings grow for
at least a week or two before transplanting,
sometimes longer. I liked the ease of handling.
True that there aren’t as many roots coming out
the sides of the cubes.I use Rapid Start fertilizer
on them.

 

[HeatMiser]

 
Im curious.  Did your rockwool cubes have the plastic wrapped around them?  I noticed on mine that if there wasn't any plastic, the roots never grew out of the cubes.  They seemed to "air prune" themselves.  Maybe I didnt leave them long enough?

 
 

I've tried starting in RW cubes only a very few times, but when I have I've tried the strategy of letting them wait so the roots really fill out the cubes.  First time the cubes weren't wrapped and it didn't work well.     The next time I tried wrapped cubes - I thought the wrapping would help by increasing the moisture content at the edges - but it didn't work well     I just seem to have no game when it come to the cubes.  I'll keep watching you guys who do this well, though, and hopefully figure it out eventually.
 
Love seeing those big healthy root masses, HM! 

 
 

 
When I used the Grodan RockWool cubes, I left
the wrapper on and let the seedlings grow for
at least a week or two before transplanting,
sometimes longer. I liked the ease of handling.
True that there aren’t as many roots coming out
the sides of the cubes.I use Rapid Start fertilizer
on them.

 
Thanks guys, I don't use rockwool cubes with wrappers. For seed starting I use the 1.5 inch Grodan Rockwool cubes. I like the small footprint for starting seeds. I think I was really close to killing the plant though, because it developed a nutrient deficiency (you can see some yellowing of the bottom leaf), which I believe was caused by salt accumulation in the cube when I was air-pruning it. I was using full-strength nutrient solution, so next time I'll ease off on the nutes at this stage.
 
So, I had to put it into the container hoping the roots would grow into the solution for proper nutrient uptake. It still kept dropping a few more leaves after this, but I think it is now under control. 

 

[Siv]

I use 1.5" cubes without wrappers in this tray thingy that fits into a 1020 tray:

 
I then move the cubes into 2" net pots and make sure that the nute level is touching the bottom of the cube.

 
There are never many side roots until they are transplanted into the 8" net pot bucket lids (still in the 2" net pot). Never had a problem getting plenty of root growth with this method.

 

[PaulG]

Looks like you have the Rockwool cube method
dialed in, Siv.

 

[Siv]

Looks like you have the Rockwool cube method
dialed in, Siv.

 
I honestly think it's more luck than anything. I tried it and it works so I'm not changing a thing. Also helps having well water so no messing around with pH balancing etc.

 

[HeatMiser]

Well, it seems the mites are back....
 
I saw a few on a couple of plants, including the mystery pepper that is currently flowering. I don't think I'll even wait for them to set fruit - I think I'll just pull the plug, wait a few weeks and start a new indoor grow in late July/early August. Sucks, but it would be nice to start again with a clean slate...

 

[Siv]

That sucks big time. However I hate to see someone give up. If you have any kind of outdoor space, get some 5 gal buckets and container mix from the big box and stick them in there and leave them outside to see what happens.

 

[HeatMiser]

That sucks big time. However I hate to see someone give up. If you have any kind of outdoor space, get some 5 gal buckets and container mix from the big box and stick them in there and leave them outside to see what happens.

 
Thanks Siv,
 
I considered taking the plants outside (especially the big TS). The problem is that even if the plant had any flowers right now (it doesn't), pods would take a bit of time to ripen. The only pod the plant produced has been growing for 2 months now, and is just a few days from being picked. That puts me around early to mid September, assuming the plant makes it until then - it would have to overcome being acclimated, broad mites and other pests, then it would have to flower, set pods and they'd have to ripen. At that point, there will barely be any sunlight hitting my north-facing backyard... those are some long odds.
 
To be fair, the plants were facing long odds ever since the mites appeared and I wasn't able to quickly figure out what was happening. This new resurgence just tells me they might be almost impossible to get rid of in an indoor grow. I'm still glad I stuck with this grow and was able to identify the problem with the plants and treat them to the point of seeing some improvement, but it was just going to get harder as the plants grew.
 
It might be better to just wrap things up, and start again in a few weeks with healthier plants, and more experience under my belt to better identify these critters if they ever show up again.

 

[Uncle Eckley]

Tough break the damn mites are back, HeatMiser.  Don't blame you wanting to start fresh. Whatcha gonna grow? I'd be happy to send you anything on my list. 

 

[HeatMiser]

Tough break the damn mites are back, HeatMiser.  Don't blame you wanting to start fresh. Whatcha gonna grow? I'd be happy to send you anything on my list. 

 
Thanks Unc,
 
I still don't know specifically what I'll be growing, but I'll pick some fast-growing varieties from my collection that are good producers. Hoping for a good harvest to shake off that bad mojo from the mites. We should definitely exchange seeds in preparation for next season though!
 
I'll start a new Glog in a few weeks...

 

[PaulG]

Hate to see you throw in the towel,
but I totally understand. Good lick
going forward with whatever you
decide to do.

 

[HeatMiser]

Just to close this one out...
 
It's been 3 weeks since I got rid of the plants, and all the broad mites they housed. It definitely wasn't the way I wanted this grow to go, but the truth is that the plants were not going to reach their potential and I would have had to invest quite a bit of time to keep the mites in check. I really don't miss checking for them regularly, or the spraying.
 
Big TS only produced this one pod. Slightly off-pheno.
 

 
This was the first TS I tried, and it was pure fire, haha. You get scorched the minute this thing touches your mouth. It had 6 seeds that looked OK. Kinda felt like getting your money back after buying a lottery ticket.
 
Thanks to everybody who provided their insight into the plethora of issues I had, and all those who followed this grow.
 
New glog here: http://thehotpepper.com/topic/73987-hms-second-attempt-for-2020/