The Dr. Bronner's is a good tip. I used the tea tree and only a squirt is needed.
-
Do you need help identifying a 🌶?
Is your plant suffering from an unknown issue? 🤧
Then ask in Identification and Diagnosis.
Help with applying neem oil
- Thread starter Swinglish
- Start date
Thanks for the replys.
I found the dr bronners online (I'm in Sweden and they dont sell it in any stores) the Ingredients list is...Water, organic coconut oil, potassium hydroxide, organic palm kernel oil, organic olive oil, lavandin extract, organic hemp oil, organic jojoba oil, lavender extract, citric acid, tocopherol.
It contains lots of different oils, what is used to emulsify (is that the right words?) All those oils in the water which is the main ingredient.
Would baby soap be ok to instead? Just because I have that on hand
I found the dr bronners online (I'm in Sweden and they dont sell it in any stores) the Ingredients list is...Water, organic coconut oil, potassium hydroxide, organic palm kernel oil, organic olive oil, lavandin extract, organic hemp oil, organic jojoba oil, lavender extract, citric acid, tocopherol.
It contains lots of different oils, what is used to emulsify (is that the right words?) All those oils in the water which is the main ingredient.
Would baby soap be ok to instead? Just because I have that on hand
Swinglish said:
I wouldn't use a baby soap, because it's a detergent. That's your call. Your plants. Detergents can, and do, cause damage to plants. If you can find a liquid aloe or yucca extract that is pure (no extra ingredients), then that may be a good alternative.
.
THere are a lot of oils in that soap. But the ingredient that you pay attention to there, is potassium hydroxide. This is used for saponification of the oils. Your oils are an acid, and this (potassium hydroxide) would replace lye as a base, to form soap. (which is a salt of fatty acids)
.
So, no, emulsify is not the right word in the soap making process.
Swinglish said:
Here in Finland, for immediate, heavy infestation control we use "mäntysuopa" (pine oil soap) - you mix some with water and fill up a huge rectangular plaster-bucket and put the whole damned plant down inside of it for 10 minutes then shower it off with clean water and repot it. This is the same stuff we use to clean our saunas and carpets and just about everything else you can imagine. The pine oil is an industrial by-product of cooking pulp for making paper or whatever. I would imagine that you can also buy this stuff in Sweden.
Link to Swedish webshop: https://www.puuilo.se/10041065
Neem is not incredibly effective as an immediate topical application - it is meant to work systemically. That means you water with it occasionally and the roots pull it up into the stems and it gradually builds up inside the plant and secretes itself out through the pores of the plant.
podz said:
This is absolutely the most wrong thing that I've ever read on the subject.
.
Neem is meant to coat the leaves. It absolutely does not work systemically. (although, "systemic" can, and in this case does, refer to entry/circulation through leaf tissue, not roots) And it is absolutely effective as a topical.
.
Pesticides made with Neem oil are systemic. SOME plants absorb Azadirachtin compounds systemically. But emulsified cold pressed Neem is only a topical (except as noted above). Soil drenches with neem are meant to control soil borne organisms, like nematoides, fungus gnats, certain fungi, etc...
@Swinglish here is an article in Finnish about how to use this stuff. I guess google translate is working quite fine.
http://tolu.fi/vinkki/miten-voin-torjua-kasvien-tuholaisia/
http://tolu.fi/vinkki/miten-voin-torjua-kasvien-tuholaisia/
podz said:
I wont' argue it, either, because I have been using it for quite awhile, and know exactly which mechanism produces best results. I use it as BOTH a leaf coat, and as a soil drench, and it works in very specific ways when used in either case. If I want to kill aphids, scale, whitefly, and stinkbugs, it's sprayed to the leaves. If I want to kill nematodes, root aphids, or scale at the base of the mainstem, it's a soil drench.
.
It's very important to note in those studies, whether an extract was used, or a crude form, such as the one we use here, so often.
solid7 said:
The pt, as I said is that you can't just put pure Neem oil in water, so you also need insecticidal soap or any other emulsifier. And then of course you won't know about the recommended dosage for plants. (This tiny bottle of Azasomething I have, it lasts for a year if not longer. It's €6. No biggy. Really. Also...to be honest, I think if you get a 1L bottle of insecticidal. soap, you're better off. You don't really *need* to also use Neem. If I had to choose, I'd get the soap rather than the Neem)
flexy123 said:
No, that's not the point. Soap is soap, and neem is neem. Soap ONLY kills on contact. It's absolutely the wrong choice for a persistent pest, like whitefly. Because even if you spray them relentlessly, that's not good for your plants. Emulsified Neem is effective for at least a week, with the bonus of sterilizing any survivors.
.
You can also use pure Neem as a horticultural oil, and get stronger contact benefits, with the Aza effect.
.
Honestly, if you want to know what it takes to treat pests, you need to live somewhere where there are actually pests. I have more bugs in my backyard than you likely have in a square mile surrounding where you live. There are likely few outside of the tropics who have to deal with what we deal with. It's a very difficult thing to be contradicted by those who live in a temperate climate, on this issue.
solid7 said:Honestly, if you want to know what it takes to treat pests, you need to live somewhere where there are actually pests. I have more bugs in my backyard than you likely have in a square mile surrounding where you live. There are likely few outside of the tropics who have to deal with what we deal with. It's a very difficult thing to be contradicted by those who live in a temperate climate, on this issue.
A bit presumptious, aren't we? I live in a country where nearly all of the cities and farmland are drained swamps. And the rest of the country is either lakes or currently swamps. People come from around the world to study spiders in the swamps here because the same diversity is not found in too many other places. We have flies that can take chunks of meat off of you. Perhaps a bit less of the "I am the absolute authority" attitude from you would go a long way in making friends, which is the reason we are here, right?
I've driven down Florida swamp highways at night, driven down Louisiana swamp highways at night, driven down Finnish Lapland swamp highways at night and the length of time I could keep driving before I had to pull over and do a heavy-duty cleaning of my windshield was not drastically different in any of the three places!
Honestly, if you enter a discussion then people are going to debate with you, disagree with you and sometimes be rude and tell you that you are completely ridiculous (although that is not really cool at all).
podz said:
Yeah, but it's not about your spiders. It's about the stuff that requires the use of Neem
.
There are actually "quite many peer-reviewed articles published on this topic" - that is, thebiodiversity here in Florida, as well as the adaptability and survivability of almost every creature on earth. And to quote another expert I once spoke to, with regards to argument... "simply don't have time or desire,"
.
I use Neem 52 weeks out of every year. Maybe I'm not an absolute authority, but I've had a hell of a lot of experience.
.
I find it interesting that I'd get called out by the same person who wants a return to the day when you could just run a peasant through with a blade, and call the matter settled. Hmm.
Solid7,
greeenhouse + heat + humidity = bugs...
I am way too familiar with "the usual" stuff like mites, white flies or thrips
I do of course not say that Neem is bad, not at all Just if for whatever reason I would have to choose, I'd first get insecticidal soap and THEN Neem.
(Of course I use both, but not together any longer as described a few posts above. So if I have a really bad infestation, I alternate ins. soap and then Neem)
greeenhouse + heat + humidity = bugs...
I am way too familiar with "the usual" stuff like mites, white flies or thrips
I do of course not say that Neem is bad, not at all
Just if for whatever reason I would have to choose, I'd first get insecticidal soap and THEN Neem.(Of course I use both, but not together any longer as described a few posts above. So if I have a really bad infestation, I alternate ins. soap and then Neem)
flexy123 said:
The real problem is greenhouse + heat + humidity = plant death.
.
Evaporative cooling does not work in a hot and humid environment. Your plants will struggle in this environment. Greenhouses are great for semi-arid and arid climates, but not so much in the more tropical type climates. I know that you're not in the tropics, but anywhere that humidity (with heat) is even a tad bit on the high side, greenhouses are just no good.
.
Can you open up the greenhouse, or convert it to shade house in summer?