hybrid How are cross species classified?

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dragon49

How are inter species (Capsicum annum X Capsicum Chinense) classified.
 
 
Edited post - I was wrong about the classification of my Chile's due to my own misspelling:
 
According to http://fataliiseeds.net/, the Pimenta da Neyde is a a Capsicum chinense, but I still want the answer to my original question.  I had been misspelling the Chile as a Pimento de Neyde and as Pimento's are Capsicum annuum, which is why I was confused, thinking they were a c annuum. 
 
Edited again - According to the Hippy seed folks, it is indeed an inter species cross:
 
http://thehippyseedcompany.com/product/pimenta-de-neyde/
 
Whatever it is, I don't love my cross any less and am still interested in the species classification.
 
From what I've gathered it's based upon characteristics found exhibiting in the flowers. However most the time I've seen C. Annum x C. Chinense the resulting fruit has a tendency to produce plants in the Chinense group. There's plenty of others on here more experienced than I that can lend a much better explanation though.
 
ChileHeadCliff said:
From what I've gathered it's based upon characteristics found exhibiting in the flowers. However most the time I've seen C. Annum x C. Chinense the resulting fruit has a tendency to produce plants in the Chinense group. There's plenty of others on here more experienced than I that can lend a much better explanation though.
Click to expand...
Edited to reflect that both the Pimenta da Neyde (Spelling corrected) and the Bhut are both C Chinense, so this post if off topic, but no need to delete it.  The cross is both hot and sweet.
 
Edited again - According to the Hippy seed folks, it is indeed an inter species cross:
 
http://thehippyseedcompany.com/product/pimenta-de-neyde/
 
 
 
1) PDN's are anything but sweet.
2) The real question is, given the definition of species, how are interspecific hybrids (or, for that matter, intergeneric, or even interfamilial hybrids, in some animals) possible? 
 
Wicked Mike said:
1) PDN's are anything but sweet.
2) The real question is, given the definition of species, how are interspecific hybrids (or, for that matter, intergeneric, or even interfamilial hybrids, in some animals) possible? 
Click to expand...
Species can be based on things other than genetic compatibility. For example, if there was one population of birds that sings a high tone and one that sings low, they would be different species due to lack of interbreeding because the call sounds wrong, even if they could physically mate just fine and produce fertile offspring. Something similar is with camels and llamas. A camel is too large to mate with a llama, but artificial means have been used to produce offspring that are perfectly capable to breed with each other(Ask the Saudis why they did it. I have no idea.) With peppers though, I think it's because they aren't usually fertile when cross bred, and have enough different characteristics in growth pattern and leaf shape to be considered different.
 
Wicked Mike said:
1) PDN's are anything but sweet.
2) The real question is, given the definition of species, how are interspecific hybrids (or, for that matter, intergeneric, or even interfamilial hybrids, in some animals) possible? 
Click to expand...
What do PDNs taste like?

I'm about to edit my first post:
 
According to http://fataliiseeds.net/, the Pimenta da Neyde is a a Capsicum chinense, but I still want the answer to my original question.  I had been misspelling the Chile as a Pimento de Neyde and as Pimentos are Capsicum annuum, which is why I was confused.
 
Edited again - According to the Hippy seed folks, it is indeed an inter species cross:
 
http://thehippyseedcompany.com/product/pimenta-de-neyde/
 
Few thoughts:
 
Mother Nature is kind of like the English language, sometimes the rules simply do not matter.  A goat and a sheep can have offspring.  It is rare, but it does happen.
 
Someone indicated Ghost pepper is Chinense.  I do not think this is completely accurate.  This article might shed some light on the topic at hand.

http://www.chilepepperinstitute.org/content/files/JolokiaArt.pdf

I wont pretend to understand exactly what the article is addressing with respect to dna.  However, am thinking that like with animals, we are moving from classifications based on the look of things to dna.  I am willing to bet a great many things will change as this happens.  Myself, I want to know if rabbits are related to more related to rats, horses, or kangaroo.  The relationship being about like if pluto is a planet or not.  Keeps changing.
 
 
ajdrew said:
Few thoughts:
 
Mother Nature is kind of like the English language, sometimes the rules simply do not matter.  A goat and a sheep can have offspring.  It is rare, but it does happen.
 
Someone indicated Ghost pepper is Chinense.  I do not think this is completely accurate.  This article might shed some light on the topic at hand.

http://www.chilepepperinstitute.org/content/files/JolokiaArt.pdf
I wont pretend to understand exactly what the article is addressing with respect to dna.  However, am thinking that like with animals, we are moving from classifications based on the look of things to dna.  I am willing to bet a great many things will change as this happens.  Myself, I want to know if rabbits are related to more related to rats, horses, or kangaroo.  The relationship being about like if pluto is a planet or not.  Keeps changing.
 
Click to expand...
Great article.
 
When referring to mammals, the definition of a "species" is simple.  There are 2 accepted definitions:
 
1 - If a pair can mate and produce offspring, they belong to the same species.
2 - If a pair can mate and produce viable offspring, they belong to the same species.
 
Some things can get weird, like trying to mate a Great Dane with a Chihuahua - See - http://puppytoob.com/dog-breeds/can-chihuahua-great-dane-mix-exist/
 
In the plant and different organism kingdoms, things get more complicated.
 
Regarding Chile's, there a a great breeding chart on the bottom of this page:
 
http://www.fatalii.net/Growing_chile_peppers/Breeding
 
 
It would be nice to have explanations, such as why some attempted matings work and some don't.  
 
As someone who has done research with sea turtles, my best answer is (going from low orders to high orders)...a subspecies is a species, (say a loggerhead turtle) which is prevalent on the S.E. US coast...in sea turtle speak we call the Atlantic loggerhead C. caretta caretta. Although they are found all over the world, the species in the southeast atlantic is a distinct breeding population, and (if you get really anal) may show one or two characteristics other than loggerheads from, say, Greece. This subtlety may be as small as that the population that breeds here always breed here (ie Georgia, FLA).
Separate SPECIES are species which are distinct in their physical characteristics....for instance...I have done a lot of work with Ambystoma salamanders....Ambystoma is the genus...but there are species...the tiger salamander, the spotted salamander...that are unique in their physical appearance and behavioral characteristics, territory, etc. HOWEVER, even some of these separate species can interbreed. All these salamanders species fall under the genus Ambystoma....it IS possible to interbreed SOME of them....although they are distinct populations in the wild. This would relate to peppers like C. chinense and C. annuum are two separate species in the genus Capsicum.....so it is possible to interbreed some of these species. And likewise why we see such pod variation in size, flavor, heat, within a species because of all the SUBSPECIES that have been grown at all of our different gardens.
As for why do breedings work...typically in nature intra-species breeding yields offspring with undesirable traits...ie weak immune systems, blindness, sterility....so nature weeds them out then through natural selection. Typically.
But in Hot Pepper World we have sixteen year old kids with grow rooms, hydroponics, etc.
 
Dragon, love that tutorial but it kind of points to how mother nature is fickle.  The example I gave of a goat and a sheep sometimes having offspring is kind of like the chart with the combination that sometimes produce viable fruit / seeds.  Some folk hate it when I say this, but I think the rarity of life lends itself to believing all life here on earth started at a single point.  Not saying I can have a baby with an iguana, but I think the lines are more fuzzy than we generally think.  At least I have thought that way since hearing about the goat and sheep babies.  Frigging weird.
 
ajdrew said:
Not saying I can have a baby with an iguana, but I think the lines are more fuzzy than we generally think.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you've tried, and ruled it out?
ajdrew said:
Not saying I can have a baby with an iguana, but I think the lines are more fuzzy than we generally think.
Click to expand...
Are you saying you've tried, and ruled it out?
dragon49 said:
What do PDNs taste like?
I'm about to edit my first post:
 
According to http://fataliiseeds.net/, the Pimenta da Neyde is a a Capsicum chinense, but I still want the answer to my original question.  I had been misspelling the Chile as a Pimento de Neyde and as Pimentos are Capsicum annuum, which is why I was confused.
 
Edited again - According to the Hippy seed folks, it is indeed an inter species cross:
 
http://thehippyseedcompany.com/product/pimenta-de-neyde/
Click to expand...
They're hot.
 
To me the Pimento de Neyde tastes nutty. I do t get the chinense floral tastes like I do with other chinense. Maybe that's because its a chinense/annuum cros . I dont know.

And yeah they are hot.
 
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