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how long does a pepper variety last?

j.t.delaney

j.t.delaney

Hi there,

I've been thinking about pepper diversity lately. It wasn't that long ago that bhut jolokias, fataliis, and Trinidad 7 pots were introduced to the global chilihead community. Now, they each come in every color: red, yellow, mustard, cappuccino, chocolate brown, white, black, etc -- with no real limit to the number of subcategories. In the course of roughly a decade, the diversity of available varieties of these has dramatically increased. There seems to be a lot of genetic plasticity in Capsicum.

So how long do these last? Is there a way to estimate the average lifespan of a varietal before it is supplanted? Maybe an easier question, is there a way to gauge the rate that Capsicum is diversifying?
 
An interesting question - it made me think what varieties are now extinct that I won't have an opportunity to grow......

That Columbus "discovered" the pepper in the Americas and took it to Europe in and around 1500 and in 500 years or so Capsicum spread around the world and took on such a variety of shapes, sizes, taste, etc. is a real testament to the pepper's diversity.
 
This makes me think of dogs. Incredibly similar genetic material, but amazing diversity of morphology, despite the similar core DNA. Dogs have one of the most quickly moving diversification of appearance of a species, but they also regress back to their roots in just a few generations. So if you let loose one of each AKC-recognized breed on an island, within 3-4 generations, for the most part, you'd have a bunch of proto dogs running around that look roughly like a dingo.

I feel very similar about peppers.
 
I kinda agree with EM...but my other thought is...to use an example...dogs...collies....there are several variations/colors to the breed, each having it's own identity...genetically identical with the exception of recessive or expressed traits...

The best instance I can see in the pepper world is the 7 Pot...the standard 7 Pot that first came to us was Red...period...red....then after 4 or 5 years, you have many many different colors...my put on it is that they are all 7 pots, and the red is the only one that is stable, the yellow is getting that way, but with all these other "colors" that have been named, they are just a variation on a theme which environment and the expression of genetic traits be they strong or weak...
 
I remember someone posting about the TS Morouga being very different genetically, but haven't heard anything since...

If a pepper changes color on a Caribbean island (or in Oregon?) and there's no one to see it, does it still change color?
 
Spicegeist said:
I remember someone posting about the TS Morouga being very different genetically, but haven't heard anything since...
Click to expand...

I may be wrong but I don't think any genetic testing was done....it's hard for an ag school at a major university to justify the funding for genetic testing when the need for the testing is by a small minority of the population...most of the schools choose to spend their money on helping the average farmer grow better, healthier crops...
 
I think the plants are getting less diverse actually. What were once isolated communities with distinct genetic traits have now become mongrels with a soup of blended DNA.

You have to wonder what the progenitor of the Jalapeno was like before it was selectively-bred to be a food item. I'm sure the wild parents are now extinct.

Edit
 
correct me if I am wrong please, but I do believe the lowly wild tepin is the grand mother of all other pods...migrated north from the yucatan via bird droppings
 
maybe I'm confusing myself. You are probably correct.

There are (were) several (20 something?) species of peppers that existed before we started cultivating them...IIRC.

I guess I'm comparing the state of the pepper before we began hybridizing them to what we have now, not considering that they once all came from a common progenitor.

The plant communities were once isolated and diverse, and are now being (re)blended together in agriculture for human desired traits, while the undesirable traits are being bred out.
 
thegreenman said:
You have to wonder what the progenitor of the Jalapeno was like before it was selectively-bred to be a food item. I'm sure the wild parents are now extinct.
Click to expand...

I suppose. But this would be true of like 95% of what we eat as vegetables and fruit today. I mean, almost all of the produce that keeps us healthy was developed in the last 5-10K years. So although you're correct that there were isolated communities of genes, I don't know that they were all that remarkable. Meaning, I think they too would reduce to their prototype in a few generations without some kind of human intervention. I could be wrong, though.

As a side note, I continue to be amazed by arguments from supposedly progressive dieticians and diet experts that claim that grains (corn, wheat, etc.) were developed "recently" and that human digestive systems have not properly adjusted to them because they were not initially "meant" to be consumed. Somehow these same folks are a-okay with advocating the consumption of apples, peppers, tomatoes, potatoes, headed brassicas, fruits and tree nuts that were domesticated FAR later than the grains that are to be avoided.

I'm not saying that too much grain or processed grain flour is good for a person, but I fail to understand how its time as a domesticate is a logical argument against its use when it was first and not last in the chain of edible domesticates (I mean, unless you count dogs).
 
When I think about this stuff the Galapagos islands always come to mind. Maybe i'm just romanticizing Darwinism.

As far as Dietitians go, I put them in the same category as Politicians. :rofl:
 
AlabamaJack said:
I may be wrong but I don't think any genetic testing was done....it's hard for an ag school at a major university to justify the funding for genetic testing when the need for the testing is by a small minority of the population...most of the schools choose to spend their money on helping the average farmer grow better, healthier crops...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I never bothered to keep up after that research announcement through the CPI, so I really have no idea...
 
This is a fascinating topic. I am not a geneticist, but I have taken a number of courses in genetics and molecular biology at the upper division and graduate school levels. I had posted in my first "welcome thread" post that I am just now getting back into growing peppers after learning of the superhots. This board has really educated me as far as the different varieties. The cool crosses are something that I would have never imagined back when I grew habaneros in 2000 and 2001.

Pepper plants seem to have some really "volatile" DNA. As someone, I think Alabama Jack, mentioned somewhere, the 7 pot when introduced was just red, period. Then yellow and brown varieties turned up. Selectively breed for the new phenotypes and after a few generations, you have a new variety that is hopefully stable.

I don't know much about the specifics of Capsicum molecular biology, but I can only imagine there are quite a few "hot spots" for crossing over during meiosis. This would account for the relatively rapid development of new varieties. Teleologically, it would suggest Capsicum in general is a highly plastic genus making it very adaptable to whatever environment it finds itself.

Regarding the OP's original question as how long a pepper variety lasts, it seems look at the makings of evolution when new varieties arise de novo. Such plasticity makes crosses that much easier to obtain, and perhaps that much harder to stabilize. The ancestor plants are likely growing in the wild, if they haven't been otherwise destroyed. In their native environment, evolutionary pressures will likely maintain the "original" phenotype as natural selection. Once we humans get our hands on them, growing them in their non-native environments and in proximity to varieties unencountered in their native environments, we are likely to see new strains develop, be it from selecting for differing phenotypes by selective growth, adaptation to a non-native environment, previously unencountered crosses, and/or all of the above.

$0.02
 
I became interested in the history of domestication a few years ago, and I stumbled across this lecture series that really expanded my understanding more.

http://www.thegreatc...l.aspx?cid=1557

Sojka is an awesome storyteller, too, which helps. If you can't find it outside the Great Courses site, check your local library. WELL worth the listen on the way to work one week.

edit: My reference was to the audiobook/lecture. Was unaware till now there was a video as well.
 
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