How to focus energy on growth

M

mattyq25

First post alert :dance:
 
I have 6 plants that are all relatively the same size - 1 datil, 1 scorpion, 4 reapers - and they have all started to grow flower buds. I have been plucking off the buds everyday to try to focus the energy on growing the plants larger, but the flower buds pop back up what seems like almost overnight. I believe all the energy is being focused towards the top of the plants and so the lower foliage has began to drop off (the leaves basically just snap off like they've been dried out) however the top of the plants look extremely healthy. Would you recommend I possibly trim back some of the top leaves to allow more light to hit the bottom of the plant? Any other tips on how to force growth rather than blossom?
 
*sorry if this has already been answered.. I have been skimming this forum for months and you guys have helped tremendously to get my plants where they are today.. but this has me scratching my head*
 
They are all in 5 gallon self watering buckets (apartment life limitations /: ) and are about 5 months old. They are all roughly 2 feet tall give or take a couple inches.
 
I will work on trying to get some pictures.
 
People commonly think that we have complete control to "force" a plant to do this, or do that.  In fact, it's really not that easy.  Growth. bloom, fruit ripening, is all determined entirely by the conditions presented the plant.  It's a function of what media they're growing in, what temp/humidity, how much light, how many nutrients, moisture, etc, etc, etc.  And without knowing every detailed bit of information about the plant, it's nearly impossible to influence these variables.
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Some will say that you add more nitrogen to encourage growth.  This isn't true, and don't believe it for one moment.  IF the plant has proper nutrition, to begin with, there will be no need to have to influence it.  Others will say cut back on Potassium.  Again, it's not that simple.
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You say your plants are 5 months old, and only a couple of feet tall.  That's telling, for me.  The pics definitely will be helpful.
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instead of trying to "force" nature to do something, your time will be be better spent just applying the basic knowledge and rules of growing, and letting the plant do what it's supposed to do.  Let's see the pics, and then maybe you can get a good recommendation, going forward.
 
solid7 said:
People commonly think that we have complete control to "force" a plant to do this, or do that.  In fact, it's really not that easy.  Growth. bloom, fruit ripening, is all determined entirely by the conditions presented the plant.  It's a function of what media they're growing in, what temp/humidity, how much light, how many nutrients, moisture, etc, etc, etc.  And without knowing every detailed bit of information about the plant, it's nearly impossible to influence these variables.
.
Some will say that you add more nitrogen to encourage growth.  This isn't true, and don't believe it for one moment.  IF the plant has proper nutrition, to begin with, there will be no need to have to influence it.  Others will say cut back on Potassium.  Again, it's not that simple.
.
You say your plants are 5 months old, and only a couple of feet tall.  That's telling, for me.  The pics definitely will be helpful.
.
instead of trying to "force" nature to do something, your time will be be better spent just applying the basic knowledge and rules of growing, and letting the plant do what it's supposed to do.  Let's see the pics, and then maybe you can get a good recommendation, going forward.
Click to expand...
 
The above does bring into question a question.
 
I have in the past allowed plants to flower at will once outside. And never having done it differently allows for a possible discussion of theoretical outcomes and or of proven testing. I am constantly evolving my grow and cannot equate what is happening right now to what I have done in the past because I am not growing test groups of both or all. Hence it would be impossible to determine if the evolution of my grow is the positive effect or the most recent change of procedure. I have to wonder though, does the removing of flowers really have an impact on structural growth? I theorize that just maybe if growing conditions are perfect, that the plant will regulate uptake of available nutrients to do both and thereby removing one of the elements in question(flowers) only effects the uptake of the required nutrients to do both. No flowers=less required and effected uptake of nuts. Theoretical out come would be more nuts left in the media to be lost to the plant.
 
CAPCOM said:
 
The above does bring into question a question.
 
I have in the past allowed plants to flower at will once outside. And never having done it differently allows for a possible discussion of theoretical outcomes and or of proven testing. I am constantly evolving my grow and cannot equate what is happening right now to what I have done in the past because I am not growing test groups of both or all. Hence it would be impossible to determine if the evolution of my grow is the positive effect or the most recent change of procedure. I have to wonder though, does the removing of flowers really have an impact on structural growth? I theorize that just maybe if growing conditions are perfect, that the plant will regulate uptake of available nutrients to do both and thereby removing one of the elements in question(flowers) only effects the uptake of the required nutrients to do both. No flowers=less required and effected uptake of nuts. Theoretical out come would be more nuts left in the media to be lost to the plant.
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It's a logical thought...  But here's the problem...
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A plant that is flowering, may be doing so in reaction to a deficiency.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again - adding a stressor is one way to get almost any type of plant to flower.  The plant thinks it's dying.  And plants have biological mandates.  Of course that's just one thought.
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Flowering isn't brought on by nutrient manipulation, unless my previous statement applies, or if sufficient levels of the hormones responsible for flowering/fruiting are present.  Hormones grow plants, and dictate fruit production - not N's, P's, and K's.   It's entirely possible that if you were just to start pulling flowers off, your plant may just continue to produce them, and very little of anything else, until death occurs.  Plants can flower and fruit, even in the face of (certain) nutrient deficiencies.
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You are one of the few that I see on here who pays attention to soil health.  I will always maintain that if you present the best possible conditions for your plant - and that is "best" relative to what your environment dictates that you can present - then the plant will do the rest.  It will maximize it's potential, based on what it's given to work with.
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The best way to test any theory, is in a grow room, by the way.  If you've got one, do your experiments there.
 
solid7 said:
 
It's a logical thought...  But here's the problem...
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A plant that is flowering, may be doing so in reaction to a deficiency.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again - adding a stressor is one way to get almost any type of plant to flower.  The plant thinks it's dying.  And plants have biological mandates.  Of course that's just one thought.
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Flowering isn't brought on by nutrient manipulation, unless my previous statement applies, or if sufficient levels of the hormones responsible for flowering/fruiting are present.  Hormones grow plants, and dictate fruit production - not N's, P's, and K's.   It's entirely possible that if you were just to start pulling flowers off, your plant may just continue to produce them, and very little of anything else, until death occurs.  Plants can flower and fruit, even in the face of (certain) nutrient deficiencies.
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You are one of the few that I see on here who pays attention to soil health.  I will always maintain that if you present the best possible conditions for your plant - and that is "best" relative to what your environment dictates that you can present - then the plant will do the rest.  It will maximize it's potential, based on what it's given to work with.
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The best way to test any theory, is in a grow room, by the way.  If you've got one, do your experiments there.
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I totally agree that flowering is no indication of nutritional health. However, to bring forth all of the flowers to fruition while maintaining ultimate plant health would require a plant capable of nutrient uptake. the question then is, and let use humanology as the model. When a woman becomes pregnant, she starts consuming more than she otherwise would to provide nutritional health to her offspring while still intaking enough to subsist herself. Food for thought.
 
After a little more consideration to the above discussions, I have decided to save myself some time and allow all my plants to do what they do best. If their size and bounty both increase, then I will know this years decisions and growing practices have paid off.
 
Here are 2 main offenders - the top 2 is the Datil and the bottom 2 is the scorpion.. please ignore the awful stick/string support system I have.. this was leaning pretty hardcore a couple weeks ago but I think I can remove the support now.
 
5.jpg
6.jpg
1.jpg
2.jpg

 
You can see in both pictures that the top of the plants look alright, then we have barely any foliage in the center and a little bit at the bottom. Im a complete noob here at growing peppers so im not sure if this is normal or not. I did top them hoping they would get "bushier".
 
CAPCOM said:
 
I totally agree that flowering is no indication of nutritional health. However, to bring forth all of the flowers to fruition while maintaining ultimate plant health would require a plant capable of nutrient uptake. the question then is, and let use humanology as the model. When a woman becomes pregnant, she starts consuming more than she otherwise would to provide nutritional health to her offspring while still intaking enough to subsist herself. Food for thought.
 
After a little more consideration to the above discussions, I have decided to save myself some time and allow all my plants to do what they do best. If their size and bounty both increase, then I will know this years decisions and growing practices have paid off.
Click to expand...
 
Actually, your example is pretty good, but technically not quite correct...
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When a human mother is carrying a child, the child will take everything it needs for its own optimum health, even at the mother's expense. You hope that the mother keeps up her nutrition - but it is only minimally required.   A mother can produce perfectly healthy offspring, even if she, herself, completely deteriorates in the process.  Fruit - whether human or otherwise, is technically parasitic.  Which is my case for making sure that the plant is at its optimum health, regardless of whether or not it's in a fruiting stage.  It's also why I don't believe in nutrient cycling...
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Your strategy may be one that relies purely on stores, from a previous stage of life.  Or, it may be to keep providing a constant supply of sustenance, in all stages. Mine is the latter, not the former.  Nature doesn't cycle nutrients.  If it's there, it's available, at every stage of life.  And at every stage of life, if a plant needs something, it takes what's available to it. (but ONLY what it needs - it doesn't use "extra")  I find that to be a very intuitive concept.
 
mattyq25 said:
Here are 2 main offenders - the top 2 is the Datil and the bottom 2 is the scorpion.. please ignore the awful stick/string support system I have.. this was leaning pretty hardcore a couple weeks ago but I think I can remove the support now.
 
5.jpg
6.jpg
1.jpg
2.jpg

 
You can see in both pictures that the top of the plants look alright, then we have barely any foliage in the center and a little bit at the bottom. Im a complete noob here at growing peppers so im not sure if this is normal or not. I did top them hoping they would get "bushier".
Click to expand...
 
Your plants actually look quite nice.  I'm not quite sure what your expectations are, but it seems that this is a perception problem, more than anything.  And that's not a bad problem to have. (unless you act upon it)
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I do wonder if that is settling that I see, or if you just didn't fill the bucket...  Seems like quite a bit of headroom for more media.  I would actually use that space for a good top dress of organic fert, a little more mix, and then some grass clippings or hay, to cap it off.  
 
solid7 said:
 
Your plants actually look quite nice.  I'm not quite sure what your expectations are, but it seems that this is a perception problem, more than anything.  And that's not a bad problem to have. (unless you act upon it)
.
I do wonder if that is settling that I see, or if you just didn't fill the bucket...  Seems like quite a bit of headroom for more media.  I would actually use that space for a good top dress of organic fert, a little more mix, and then some grass clippings or hay, to cap it off.  
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the feedback!!! the potting mix definitely settled out a bit - was thinking about adding some more fertilizer mix to make up for what I've lost. great recommendation with the grass clipping and hay as well.
 
Would you have any recommendations on how I should go about adding more media? I have several shoots coming out at or near the bottom and would hate to have to clip them to add more media.
 
mattyq25 said:
 
Thanks for the feedback!!! the potting mix definitely settled out a bit - was thinking about adding some more fertilizer mix to make up for what I've lost. great recommendation with the grass clipping and hay as well.
 
Would you have any recommendations on how I should go about adding more media? I have several shoots coming out at or near the bottom and would hate to have to clip them to add more media.
Click to expand...
 
The plant will make up for the lost bottom growth.
 
CAPCOM said:
 
The plant will make up for the lost bottom growth.
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Yep, agree.  Snip it, just like you would saplings on a tree.  You can clone new plants from them, if you're so inclined...
 
mattyq25 said:
 
Thanks for the feedback!!! the potting mix definitely settled out a bit - was thinking about adding some more fertilizer mix to make up for what I've lost. great recommendation with the grass clipping and hay as well.
 
Would you have any recommendations on how I should go about adding more media? I have several shoots coming out at or near the bottom and would hate to have to clip them to add more media.
Click to expand...
 
That's the problem with peat based mixes in small pots.  They settle, and some compaction can occur. If it were a cloth pot, I'd tell you to kick it around a bit, and loosen it.  Guess that won't work in the bucket.  If you use organic ferts, lay a layer down, and then just toss the media on top.  If you don't use organic ferts, don't worry about it, just top fill with mix. 
 
From my experience, once a plant runs out of room for the rootball to expand, it will begin flowering.
 
I have clipped many small pods from young plants in three inch pots, but once the plant was put in the ground, it stopped flowering and began growing again.
 
 
 
Hybrid Mode 01 said:
 
     The OP's plants don't appear to have any deficiencies. Explain how providing more N will change the plants' growth habits.
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it's not about Nitrogen.
 
lek said:
give your plant L-amino acid.  
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You have posted this twice in 2 separate threads. It is not helpful to post simple statements such as this without going into details and/or making everyone Google the subject.
 
*Update*
 
After further investigation I determined that the 3" "wick" cups filled with media had been dissolved into the water reservoir (self watering buckets) - this was likely due to me forgetting to compact the mix before placing inside of the container (face palm). So it seems that the plants where not getting sufficient water which could have stressed them and hence all the sudden buds? I had noticed that some plants would wilt at night which I thought was strange - possibly related? I did water about once a week otherwise but we have had several 90+ days in a row here this past week. This is all just theory and I'm likely wrong because lets be honest, I have no idea what I'm talking about here ;)
 
At any rate - I fixed my mistake with the wicks and was able to fill the bottom of each bucket with new fertilizer/mix. The soil beds are now sitting right near the top for all my plants (and no need to trim). So far, everything looks ok - hopefully I didn't shock the plants too much with all the moving around. I guess time will tell and lesson learned!
 
Thanks again everyone for the help.
 
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