I agree with ajijoe and think that people should name a strain for what it actually is. If it grew from a douglah but is yellow than call it a yellow douglah. If it grew from a 7 pod and is yellow, do not call it a yellow douglah. yellow brainstrain grows orange call it the orange brainstrain. As long as they don't start making up new names except for some really novel crosses that create a new variant entirely i.e the carolina reaper, than just call it what the cross is i.e savannah x bubblegum 7 pod. Or call it by whatever number it is in your grow house. Just don't start misleading people, that's both bad for business and morally dubious. Chiliheads are some of the worst people to mislead/annoy also if you want to be able to open a letter without a burning under your fingernails.
-
Do you need help identifying a 🌶?
Is your plant suffering from an unknown issue? 🤧
Then ask in Identification and Diagnosis.
I rest my case: name shame
- Thread starter RobStar
- Start date
RobStar said:
mmcdermott1 said:
I think McDermott hit the nail on the head. Who knows?
I've grown a couple of these types, for instance the Brain Strain and the Douglah and have seen diversity. I'm not sure what would be best if I were selling them, for instance Brain Strain (smaller, smoother, extra hot) and Douglah (smaller, wrinklier vs. larger slightly smoother)? As far as the Rennie is concerned, I think part of the problem is a lot of us only know specific versions of the 7 Pot (i.e., Barrackpore, Brain Strain etc.). Also as far as I know, in the Caribbean, the name 7 Pot or 7 Pod (whichever it is), only designates that the pepper is very
and doesn't actually refer to one particular version or ideal type.
Spicegeist said:Also as far as I know, in the Caribbean, the name 7 Pot or 7 Pod (whichever it is), only designates that the pepper is very
Now THAT I find interesting. That could be true. The whole "7 pots of chile" story similar to "3 alarm chili". Not a type of chili, just tells you it's 3 alarms hot. Could indeed be true. But never heard that before.
meinchoh said:
8-Pot! New World's Hottest!
Then I guess we are all limited to buying from commercial growers, who have developed their strains out a full 8 generations and trademarked the name.
NOT.
Where the hell is the fun in that?
Seriously---if I buy specific seed at a high cost from a commercial seller, I reserve the right to bitch if it isn't exactly what I paid for.
If, on the other hand, I pay a pittance or grab seeds from pods, I figure 1/2 the thrill is in finding some un-named mutie popping up in a plot of otherwise plain plants.
IMHO, if you are taking the time to make a stable plant, and you wish to give it a name, and stand behind your claim, I have no problem with it.
NOT.
Where the hell is the fun in that?
Seriously---if I buy specific seed at a high cost from a commercial seller, I reserve the right to bitch if it isn't exactly what I paid for.
If, on the other hand, I pay a pittance or grab seeds from pods, I figure 1/2 the thrill is in finding some un-named mutie popping up in a plot of otherwise plain plants.
IMHO, if you are taking the time to make a stable plant, and you wish to give it a name, and stand behind your claim, I have no problem with it.
mmcdermott1 said:
I have no intention of starting a tit for tat discussion. I would like to clear a few things:
A strain sent over by SR, therefore SR is the origin of that strain - it doesn't mean she's the breeder it just means she was the original source, therefore an SR strain (in recognition of the origin).
My "7 Pot Burgundy" (which is a damn Congo! Can you feel my frustration) is identical to your Mafeking Mauve. To the tee. And I got my seed from pepperlover.
Nowhere has the BrainStrain and the Moruga been mentioned in compared by me. Please have a look at the exerpt from a CARDI seed catalogue. The BrainStrain and the "original" 7 Pot are the same thing. Go way back in THP history and search for some of the posts by Sarah - have a look at the Yellow 7 Pot - it is identical to the Yellow BrainStrain.
(
Mike I have no reason to bash you or your business. And that is most certainly not what has been done here.
It just irks me that so many things out there aren't what they are purported to be. I commend you for your take on the Choc Fatalii btw. I along with many others and many more to come have been burned by bs names - believing that I am spending my money on something unique only to find out its just retagged.
My apologies - the exerpt from the brochure won't stay! I will try upload it again later.
OK struggling to upload the damn thing! Here's the link to the catalogue
http://www.cardi.org/cardi-publications/technical-publications/crops/
It's the first document - it shows the 7 Pot landrace (identical to a BrainStrain)
RobStar said:
This is partially true. These variety were selected (not breeded) for heat, size and pods shape through generations.
Even if the variety is not completely new, the developer may take some credit for the selection work (and hopefully inform customers of the origin).
As a buyer you're free to skip these "novelties" and stick with well known varieties like original 7pot SR.
No doubt someone is riding the superhot wave to make $ but no need to see the evil everywhere
Just my 2c
Datil
Chile taxonomy sucks and will continue to suck until USDA or somebody with skin in the game sets up naming conventions. I participated in USDA grow-outs with USDA seeds and numerical identification.......they, at least, are trying to normalize chile taxonomy......without great success, I might add.
Chile heads/marketers have no interest nor profit in good taxonomy.
Chile heads/marketers have no interest nor profit in good taxonomy.
RobStar said:
I have a Brain Strain that is directly traceable to the "mother" plant and a TS Morouga Blend that are not the same pepper. Although, I could understand the confusion as some people sell both TSMB and Brain Strain that look the same.
I still think it is plausible that the name 7 Pot / 7 Pod was used for a handful of different (but no doubt similar) very hot peppers, that CARDI or anyone took up the name to designate one pepper, sure, but that's on them.
THSC and CARDI are great, so are old THP threads, but your appeal to authority can't bear the weight of your desire for clarity.
The dust will settle one day on all of this. Just not yet...
willard3 said:
this seems like an unfair overgeneralization. chile heads ≠ marketers.
Spicegeist said:
Plausible it may be but that is the one that she sent over - I just cannot imagine arriving at a BrainStrain from let's say a Rennie - and not in the short time that he did. The CARDI 7 Pot is THE 7 Pot. The archetype if you will.
Once again I'm not sure why the TSMB is being brought into this. It is a very different creature - proven by the NMU to be genetically different to the 7 Pot and the Scorpion landraces.
"...your appeal to authority can't bear the weight of your desire for clarity." Huh? Me no understand. **with fumbling brain, dulled by a full day at the office, he packs his bag to leave and have a cold beer at home**
I believe the original Chocolate Fatalii is a Fatalii crossed with a Peruvian Chinense.
Originally made by the late Scotch Bonnet Steve.
Beth was given these seeds at one time to spread around by Steve.
They didn't really catch on at the time.
Same with several of Steve's other crosses and stuff he developed.
https://www.fiery-foods.com/chile-pepper-gardening/127-other-stories-about-growing-chile-peppers/2471-cheating-mother-nature
Originally made by the late Scotch Bonnet Steve.
Beth was given these seeds at one time to spread around by Steve.
They didn't really catch on at the time.
Same with several of Steve's other crosses and stuff he developed.
https://www.fiery-foods.com/chile-pepper-gardening/127-other-stories-about-growing-chile-peppers/2471-cheating-mother-nature
RobStar said:
haha, ok, what I'm saying is that perhaps 7 Pots existed before CARDI was being formed around 1955. If they say there is only one genetically stable 7 Pot, that is just what they say, for their research and/or marketing purposes. The "reality" on the ground, that is on the islands, how peppers have developed for hundreds of years... that's a different story... again, maybe. For all I know CARDI genetically modified a pepper to make it that hot, I really don't know the story.
great read up of a little bit of history thanks for the link.smokemaster said:
Spicegeist said:
Very good point! The CARDI version is an attempt at producing a uniform cultivar for commercial agriculture. Until then it was a Landrace but most certainly not uniform i.t.o. heat, shape, size and days to maturity. Whilst a landrace is useful for local small scale producers - both for home and market purposes, it is a nightmare for large scale commercial production. All the 7 Pot variations that have names attached to them are derivations of the landrace and are actually deemed to be cultivars - provided of course they are uniform in their characteristics and are actual 7 Pots. In the absence of a credible cultivar directory we are micturating in to the wind!
I have been thinking about this a lot. Many seed accessions (from GRIN, CGI etc) will produce a variable crop. One can then further select from this for whatever characteristics one prefers. I guess the original proliferation of 7 Pot germinules that landed on distant shores was pretty much the same. Having said that the only reasonable conclusion I can arrive at is that all these are to be treated as separate "proto-cultivars". In that respect then 7 Pot Rennie Brown is not incorrect as it may well represent a different entity to the "standard" 7 Pot Brown. Not something I particulalrly care for but I'm sure someone out there finds this highly desirable and desperately wants to grow it. There are also people that collect Star Trek paraphenalia.
The Douglah is another issue altogether though. It's a bit too long to go into now - just food for though though - remember it is an outcross (not hybrid because both parents are of the same species but different cultivars). Just think about hybrid regression etc. I will give my take on it later.
STAR TREK?!?!?!? What the hell`s your beef with that............ 
It`s an interesting conversation, Rob.
Given the huge number of C.chinense cultivars, I guess the question is, when does a cultivar become a cultivar? Each variety is, presumably, the result of an outcross until you get back to the prototypical C.chinense in a Brazilian Forest (or where ever it was).
And when or how does a Landrace qualify for that designation?
It`s an interesting conversation, Rob.
Given the huge number of C.chinense cultivars, I guess the question is, when does a cultivar become a cultivar? Each variety is, presumably, the result of an outcross until you get back to the prototypical C.chinense in a Brazilian Forest (or where ever it was).
And when or how does a Landrace qualify for that designation?