Ideal color temperature for peppers

[Bou]

Happy easter everyone!
 
I've searched this forum but I haven't found any reliable answer to my question yet... I did find some interesting datas on Google but nothing specifically about peppers. In fact, almost everything I found up to now seems to be oriented with ca$h crop! Here's the thing: I'm looking for the best possible color temp to grow peppers indoor from seedlings to ripe pods. I want to build my own LED lamps with some Samsung LM301B LED strips which are available in 3000K, 3500K, 4000K and 5000K. I took this graph from HLG to show de differences among those LED spectrum (except for the 3500K).
 
Does anyone has a link to a study or a source that would show the best spectrum for chiles backed with solid datas? Some seems to lean towards the use of a 4000K and 5000K combo but again, I would like to have some evidence/scientific reasons why a particular CCT would be better than another one. So, here's the kind of source I would consider as "trustable" but still lacking in some ways:
 
https://ledgardener.com/3000k-vs-5000k-grow-final-update/
http://albopepper.com/light-source.php
 
Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

Happy easter everyone!
I've searched this forum but I haven't found any reliable answer to my question yet... 
Thanks in advance for your help!

 
Are these helpful?
Light question
Indoor Growing Lights
what color LED lights should I get to induce flowering?
Still stuck trying to decide wich light to buy..
Best Color Temperature Fluorescent Lighting
 
I'm working on a Search Help thread..... Try putting "color temperature" (Including quotes!) in Grow Tech forum and follow the yellow brick road!

 

[Bou]

 
Are these helpful?
Light question
Indoor Growing Lights
what color LED lights should I get to induce flowering?
Still stuck trying to decide wich light to buy..
Best Color Temperature Fluorescent Lighting
 
I'm working on a Search Help thread..... Try putting "color temperature" (Including quotes!) in Grow Tech forum and follow the yellow brick road!

 
Unfortunately not, but thanks NECM!
I've already did a search through THP subs with key words. I'm seeking for scientific datas about high output LEDs and for peppers growing. A lot of info is available for weed but not much for chiles...
 
I currently own some 3750K and a 6500K LED lamps and both are working ok. The plants growing under the 3750K are bushier and are pushing flowers earlier compare to the one under the 6500K, which grow taller with longer internode space. 

 

[podz]

I currently own some 3750K and a 6500K LED lamps and both are working ok. The plants growing under the 3750K are bushier and are pushing flowers earlier compare to the one under the 6500K, which grow taller with longer internode space. 

 
That's not the way it works - you are exactly opposite of reality with the above assertion and it sounds to me like you just read that from some website instead of actually trying it yourself. You get far tigher internodal distance with a 6500k lamp than you do with something around 3750k - red light causes stretch, blue light causes density. With the more modern hybrid grow lamps, you get a blend of temperatures so they are all active at the same time (like my new HLG 260w RSPEC).
 
Peppers will flower profusely at 4 weeks old under 24/7 6500k lighting if you feed them properly. 

 

[skullbiker]

 
Peppers will flower profusely at 4 weeks old under 24/7 6500k lighting if you feed them properly. 

And you have seen what some of mine do under my 8000K lamps.

 

[CaneDog]

Happy Easter Bou. 
 
You bring up an interesting question and one I've not been able to find a focused discussion on from other than anecdotal/secondary sources. It seems like peppers do quite well under a variety of different lighting. 
 
China-based researchers seem to be doing a fair amount of work in the LED lighting arena (peppers in space stuff), with what I've read being focused on the effects of red spectrum light and supplemental lighting.  I've seen nothing focused on an optimal LED panel construction for peppers.  Different needs at different states of maturity does seem to figure in somewhat and I suspect, without confirmation, that different varieties of peppers may have differing optimals, e.g., peppers with strong anthocyanin concentrations versus chlorophyll.
 
Here's a paper that's recent.  It focuses on the benefits of a supplemental lighting period (to a primary neutral white light period) for peppers (annuum) using a 4:1 red:blue ratio over various duration.  Lots of talk on gene expression variance, but you may find something useful inside. Some of the data was counter-intuitive to what I would have expected.  All in all, it left me with at least as many questions as answers.
 
The end notes are actually links to source material, which is handy if you want to dig in to certain things a little more.  You may find something more helpful in the references.
 
Anyhow, good luck with your project.
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331852127_Physiological_and_Growth_Response_of_Pepper_Capsicum_annum_L_Seedlings_to_Supplementary_RedBlue_Light_Revealed_through_Transcriptomic_Analysis

 

[Bou]

 
That's not the way it works - you are exactly opposite of reality with the above assertion and it sounds to me like you just read that from some website instead of actually trying it yourself. You get far tigher internodal distance with a 6500k lamp than you do with something around 3750k - red light causes stretch, blue light causes density. With the more modern hybrid grow lamps, you get a blend of temperatures so they are all active at the same time (like my new HLG 260w RSPEC).
 
Peppers will flower profusely at 4 weeks old under 24/7 6500k lighting if you feed them properly. 

 
Well my assertion is probably not really reliable due to the fact that the 3750K are bigger units and probably pushing 5 times the lumen amount of my 6500K... With that said, I'm searching for piece of evidence so I can choose the best possible CCT LED strips. HLG are not selling 5000K anymore (mainly 3500 and 4000K, + B and R spec) and there's probably a reason why. I asked them already but they never answered me...   

 

[podz]

 
Well my assertion is probably not really reliable due to the fact that the 3750K are bigger units and probably pushing 5 times the lumen amount of my 6500K... With that said, I'm searching for piece of evidence so I can choose the best possible CCT LED strips. HLG are not selling 5000K anymore (mainly 3500 and 4000K, + B and R spec) and there's probably a reason why. I asked them already but they never answered me...   

 
Plants don't care about lumens - that is a measurement standard designed for the human eye. Chilis, and all other plants, care about photosynthetically active radiation.
 
Would you be willing to show some photos of your grow? Like do you have a glog? Even a shitty little phone photo would be good. I'm pretty much left wondering if you have ever grown anything in your life or you are just trying to outsmart your colleague at work.

 

[Bou]

Happy Easter Bou. 
 
You bring up an interesting question and one I've not been able to find a focused discussion on from other than anecdotal/secondary sources. It seems like peppers do quite well under a variety of different lighting. 
 
China-based researchers seem to be doing a fair amount of work in the LED lighting arena (peppers in space stuff), with what I've read being focused on the effects of red spectrum light and supplemental lighting.  I've seen nothing focused on an optimal LED panel construction for peppers.  Different needs at different states of maturity does seem to figure in somewhat and I suspect, without confirmation, that different varieties of peppers may have differing optimals, e.g., peppers with strong anthocyanin concentrations versus chlorophyll.
 
Here's a paper that's recent.  It focuses on the benefits of a supplemental lighting period (to a primary neutral white light period) for peppers (annuum) using a 4:1 red:blue ratio over various duration.  Lots of talk on gene expression variance, but you may find something useful inside. Some of the data was counter-intuitive to what I would have expected.  All in all, it left me with at least as many questions as answers.
 
The end notes are actually links to source material, which is handy if you want to dig in to certain things a little more.  You may find something more helpful in the references.
 
Anyhow, good luck with your project.
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331852127_Physiological_and_Growth_Response_of_Pepper_Capsicum_annum_L_Seedlings_to_Supplementary_RedBlue_Light_Revealed_through_Transcriptomic_Analysis

 
Thanks a lot CD, your article seems to be the more relevant one yet, even better than the one I shared on the "Grow Tech" sub last november about tomatoes! http://thehotpepper.com/topic/72952-interesting-study-about-the-best-red-to-blue-ratio-for-led/
 
I'll dig it out for sure!!

 

[Bou]

 
Plants don't care about lumens - that is a measurement standard designed for the human eye. Chilis, and all other plants, care about photosynthetically active radiation.
 
Would you be willing to show some photos of your grow? Like do you have a glog? Even a shitty little phone photo would be good. I'm pretty much left wondering if you have ever grown anything in your life or you are just trying to outsmart your colleague at work.

 
WTF??!
 
Why would I share something else than a few more words with you after this kind of comments?! This is by far the best trash-talk that I have been exposed too since I joined THP, nothing even came close to it yet! So I guess that we have a winner here, congrats smart boy; this shit crown that are wearing suits you pretty well I'd say. Oh, and by the way, thanks for your first reply... 

 

[podz]

 
WTF??!
 
Why would I share something else than a few more words with you after this kind of comments?! This is by far the best trash-talk that I have been exposed too since I joined THP, nothing even came close to it yet! So I guess that we have a winner here, congrats smart boy; this shit crown that are wearing suits you pretty well I'd say. Oh, and by the way, thanks for your first reply... 

 
I am a very mild person and I love this hobby and the friends I've met here. Your posts so far have been way out there - authored with an air of authority yet containing all the misconceptions of a newbie. I get it - we are all newbies once upon a time. And maybe it doesn't feel good to be academically superceded, but your assertions so far are on the high horse while still having no practical understanding.
 
I'm not an expert, myself. But, like many people on this board, there are decades of experience instead of just trying to read for 2 hours and horse it. Not gonna go that way.
 
I might be wrong, but I really doubt it.

 

[Bou]

 
I am a very mild person and I love this hobby and the friends I've met here. Your posts so far have been way out there - authored with an air of authority yet containing all the misconceptions of a newbie. I get it - we are all newbies once upon a time. And maybe it doesn't feel good to be academically superceded, but your assertions so far are on the high horse while still having no practical understanding.
 
I'm not an expert, myself. But, like many people on this board, there are decades of experience instead of just trying to read for 2 hours and horse it. Not gonna go that way.
 
I might be wrong, but I really doubt it.

 
Since you insist, I'm gonna share a bit more time with you to settle this out (or at least try too). Long story short, I've been growing many things outside like trees, tomatoes, peppers (mainly jalap, thaï and bell to this point), squashes, weed... and probably since I'm about 10 years old, which was 32 years from now. I never claimed to be an expert nor a semi pro and even after I re-read my original post, I still can't see where I was speaking "with an air of authority". Anyway...
 
I learned mostly through trial an errors, from experiences and concept borrowed from friends, in books (good or not) and places like THP. Yes, I still have much to learn about growing hot peppers and life in general, like most of us. Obvoiusly, english is not my native language and maybe some things I wrote may not expressed clearly what I've been trying to say or ask but I never intended to play the "Mr Know it all" game, come on! I was simply asking a question here, like so many everyday, in hope that a "master grower" would come out with the answer. I wanted to make sure that I would not end up with answers like " T5 neons are way ok to grow peppers, just use a cool white + warm tube combo" as I already did. I spent some time searching the web prior to post in this sub but I haven't stumble upon solid scientific datas, a question to which you were not able to answer neither by the way. You in the other hand, were showing a great  disrespect for the so called newbie through the choice of your words, your condescending tone and your king of the hill attitude. Yeah, you surprised me; a sucker punch out of nowhere but in the end your "tough" call made me laugh, at least!
 
I'll keep on searching hoping that I'll manage to find what I am looking for.

 

[stickman]

+1 on 6500k color temperature growing chile stems with short internodal length... at least that's the results I'm getting with a quad 4-foot t5 fixture. 3 of the tubes are spectralux 54 watt high output 6500s
and the 4th is a PowerVeg 54 watt full spectrum t5 with ultraviolet. https://eyehortilux.com/grow-lights...TTACH] Sent from my SM-S327VL using Tapatalk

 

[alkhall]

+2.
 
And +1 for fluorescents.
 
See my post from 2018.
 
Six-lamp T5H0, four 6500K Spectralux, two Eye Hortilux FS+UV.
 
I have had Chinense that were ~6 inches tall with ten sets of leaves. Internodal spacing of ~5/8 inch.

 

[Bou]

+2.
 
And +1 for fluorescents.
 
See my post from 2018.
 
Six-lamp T5H0, four 6500K Spectralux, two Eye Hortilux FS+UV.
 
I have had Chinense that were ~6 inches tall with ten sets of leaves. Internodal spacing of ~5/8 inch.

 
Hi alkhal, I had Gro-Lux neons before and they worked just fine for seedlings and small plants. The MarsHydro T600 and Sunblasters I'm using right now are way better but they pull quite a lot from the wall compare to high-end LEDs. I was looking for more efficient but still powerfull lights as I'd like to grow some pods (and lettuce) indoor next winter. I really enjoy building my own stuff too so I guess it's another good reason to go ahead with this project!
 
Thanks for your input, your 2018 plants were looking very healthy btw.

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

 
I spent some time searching the web prior to post in this sub but I haven't stumble upon solid scientific datas, a question to which you were not able to answer neither by the way. You in the other hand, were showing a great  disrespect for the so called newbie through the choice of your words, your condescending tone and your king of the hill attitude. Yeah, you surprised me; a sucker punch out of nowhere but in the end your "tough" call made me laugh, at least!
 
I'll keep on searching hoping that I'll manage to find what I am looking for.

 
Gutta tell ya Bou, you handled that better than I would have! Good luck in your search!

 

[alkhall]

 
Hi alkhal, I had Gro-Lux neons before and they worked just fine for seedlings and small plants. The MarsHydro T600 and Sunblasters I'm using right now are way better but they pull quite a lot from the wall compare to high-end LEDs. I was looking for more efficient but still powerfull lights as I'd like to grow some pods (and lettuce) indoor next winter. I really enjoy building my own stuff too so I guess it's another good reason to go ahead with this project!
 
Thanks for your input, your 2018 plants were looking very healthy btw.

 
Thanks.
 
LEDs use less power, for sure, but do generate a lot of heat, and are still more expensive than fluorescent.
 
I have looked at trying LED, but since I get good, actually really good, results from fluorescent, I have not decided to go that way, yet. But, I only use lights for starting, actual growing is in-ground.
 
I really should get, or make, an LED fixture, and do a side-by-side comparison. Maybe next year...
 
Anyway, good luck with your project. And be sure to post pics.

 

[Bou]

 
Thanks.
 
LEDs use less power, for sure, but do generate a lot of heat, and are still more expensive than fluorescent.
 
I have looked at trying LED, but since I get good, actually really good, results from fluorescent, I have not decided to go that way, yet. But, I only use lights for starting, actual growing is in-ground.
 
I really should get, or make, an LED fixture, and do a side-by-side comparison. Maybe next year...
 
Anyway, good luck with your project. And be sure to post pics.

 
Yeah, LEDs are way more expensive but they will last forever (supposed too!) and since I'm not planning to cover all my basement ceiling it's something I can still afford For heat it's really not that bad though. My TS600 do not have any heat sink and yes they are getting hot but unless you put them <12 inches over the plant canopy no problem. My Sunblasters are less powerfull and I can set them at 6 inches without burning the plants. In my current setup, the TS600 are hanging about 20 inches over the top leaves.
 
Not sure if I'm gonna have much time to go ahead with my project right now cauze it seems that I'll be back on the field pretty soon according to my boss. Working outside is less risqky and it's easier to respect social distancing measures... Still have to find some reliable studies or evidences before ordering the strips though. I'll update this post when I'll find the answers I'm looking for!   

 

[Bou]

 
Gutta tell ya Bou, you handled that better than I would have! Good luck in your search!

 
Thanks NECM! Didn't want to play his game and start a war but at the same time I'm not really the kind of guy who run away from adversity neither so... !

 

[The_NorthEast_ChileMan]

 
Thanks NECM! Didn't want to play his game and start a war but at the same time I'm not really the kind of guy who run away from adversity neither so... !

 
 
I see the "play games" - "war of words" aspect........ Now preach the words of wisdom I need to reflect on not to engage, in an antagonistic reply to: 
 
 "like many people on this board, there are decades of experience instead of just trying to read for 2 hours and horse it. 
Would you be willing to show some photos of your grow? Even a shitty little phone photo would be good.
 I'm pretty much left wondering if you have ever grown anything in your life or you are just trying to outsmart your colleague at work.
 Your posts so far have been way out there - authored with an air of authority yet containing all the misconceptions of a newbie
I'm not an expert, myself. I might be wrong, but I really doubt it."
 
As you did a great job of rebuttal but not losing your cool.......
 
a question to which you were not able to answer neither by the way. You in the other hand, were showing a great  disrespect for the so called newbie through the choice of your words, your condescending tone and your king of the hill attitude. Yeah, you surprised me; a sucker punch out of nowhere but in the end your "tough" call made me laugh, at least!
 
My problem is I wouldn't have laughed---I would have engaged in a snake spittin' reply that the moderators would have slapped me with a warning!