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organic implications of selling conventional as organic

mikeinsc

mikeinsc

There is a local mom and pop garden center that wants to buy veggie seedlings from me. They are insistent on selling my plants as "organic" or "organic like" to which my response is no, you can't do that. I am not OMRI or USDA certified, not even close. I try to incorporate a lot of the philosophies and principals but am strictly conventional.

My question is, what could be the fall out for the grower if a seller makes false or misleading claims? I am sure that they are using my name with the seedlings because they want to give me some reecognition. However, I don't want my name to be associated with scandalous actions. I get myself into trouble already without help.
 
I'd say go with what your gut tells you. It sounds like you're pretty sure in yourself that this is wrong for you so get clear. Just my two cents worth...
 
If the people who own this business are willing to use unethical, dishonest, or unscrupulous actions to boost their sales, I would urge you to find another outlet for selling your plants. The implications of such dishonest business practices reach into the conduct you have with them, and as soon as you are knowingly involved, you can never be sure if they aren't dishonest in other areas of their lives, and it could lead to disastrous results in the end.
 
I'm with Stickman on this one. If you are not comfortable about them using your name, tell them to stop. By using your name, they are implicating you (in the public's eye) in the deception, if they are not organic. Afterall, there is a reason that you don't feel good about this situation - listen to your gut.

...and Hendrix
 
In florida, when I looked this up once upon a time, the rule was that as long as you did no more than 5000$/yr of business, you could claim organic without any certifications, or records proving that to be the case.

Are they buying the plants from you, and then selling? If so, and they know (and sign something to the effect) that your plants are not organic, then the liability is on them.

However, it would still be dishonest.

Were it me, I would go organic, or tell them you need to pass =/

And Meincoh...
 
I'm absolutely sure that what they are trying to do is wrong and underhanded. If, however, they see their error and correct it, that's one thing. But if they uncorrect it after I leave and do sell as organic or organic like, what problems could be headed my way legally?

I don't need the few hundred bucks at all and certainly don't need a bad name for my fledgeling business.
 
Hendrix1326 said:
If the people who own this business are willing to use unethical, dishonest, or unscrupulous actions to boost their sales, I would urge you to find another outlet for selling your plants. The implications of such dishonest business practices reach into the conduct you have with them, and as soon as you are knowingly involved, you can never be sure if they aren't dishonest in other areas of their lives, and it could lead to disastrous results in the end.
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I don't know what I would do. But I think what Hendrix said is important. I have seen friends get burned because they thought they can deal with dishonest people. Eventually it will be your turn to get ripped off.
 
frosty said:
I don't know what I would do. But I think what Hendrix said is important. I have seen friends get burned because they thought they can deal with dishonest people. Eventually it will be your turn to get ripped off.
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Precisely. If they know you don't consider your plants organic and want to lie about it, they'll lie to you too som day.

Though, the reality is that anyone can slap an "organic" label on anything and get a premium price for it, which is why I totally ignore it and buy whatever tastes better, looks better, or is cheaper if I can't tell the difference. You can't call it "USDA Certified Organic" without the certificate, but can still call it organic (I personally hate the term organic, because I took enough chemistry classes to know that the nastiest pesticides out there are still organic, not inorganic, molecules...rocks are inorganic, plants and soil are organic). Anyway, that's a separate rant.
 
The solution is very simple.
When you SELL them the plants, explicitly say on the bill of sale "Non Organic", just to be clear.
It suck to even have to do that, because if it was organic, you would need to have that and your reg. number on the bill of sale.
In other words, our society says that if you are organic, you need to prove it.
Otherwise it's considered and assumed "non" organic.
Bottom line is the paper trail. What ever it says on the bill of sale, that is what the law will recognize.
If you sell them a Ford Pinto, and they put a Mustang sticker on it.... Well....? It says Ford Pinto on the title.... Bye!
The key is to SELL THEM THE PLANTS outright.

Good luck, no matter what!
Just my 3¢
 
The fact is you know what is or will happen. There's ways around it to protect your end. You just have to decide if you care about what they are going to do with your product after they get their hands on it. I mean if you already know they are going to or could eventually do it, then in essence you are being dishonest to their buyers yourself.

Correction: You are knowingly putting your product in the hands of someone who has or will misrepresent it as something you know it is not.

Obviously if you don't need the money and your posting the question on this site. You've already made the decision about how you feel about it and are trying to find enough people to tell you it's ok to do. Even with validation, it would still be what it is.

Even if 100 people tell me, that pile of shit doesn't smell. It's still a pile of shit. Just walk away from the deal. Keep your moral fibers tight bro. Your sacrifice of not selling your plants to them is really a stand point to empower your ability to make the right choice. Which will benefit you through out your entire life, rather than the gratification of having your babies being sold.
 
They can use the term Chemical Free if the plants are such. But they are idiots to try to use the word organic. I am even scared to say the word when I am selling at market. I really don't know how fierce the penalty is if you get caught using that word.
 
Sounds like they should be educated
Even if it is "organic", you often need to be certified organic to use the organic wording. Many are forced to use terms like "earth friendly" or "no chemicals used"
I think the markets usually settle these things themselves since truly organic farmers who invest time and money are not usually willing to see others get away with an unfair advantage
 
For our market garden we use the term "organic practices". We are totally organic, however, with all of the "mega-farms" getting into the organic business it has caused the regulations to become so complicated that anyone not running a million dollar a year farm can't affordably get certified anyway. I think the term will be meaningless in about 5 years anyway so I would just move on and find a more trustworthy retailer or make them sign an agreement not to falsely market your product.
 
Since you know what's going to happen with your plants doesn't matter about a paper trail. These people are planning on deceiving customers to line their pockets and you know it. What happens if some kid with the wrong allergy gets sick from one of your "organic" plants? The first person they're going to come after is the grower--you. You think a judge or a jury is going to say you have no culpability because you told the seller they weren't organic but you knew they were going to sell them as that? Wrong is wrong, no two ways about it. Whether you commit the act or look the other way you can be held responsible--and should be.
 
I am not talking about anybody in particular but when you survey people about someone else's morality you are going to get a bunch of rightious indignation. In a meeting we were discussing the business practice of holding money made overseas in those markets to avoid taxes. Half the people were "shocked" that companies did this. Some of these people stopped paying their mortgage the second it was more than the value of their house (which happened often in Phoenix).

When I worked retail there was this guy who came in once a month. There was a rumor that his wife came in and said he had a shopping addiction. When he came in I would always sell to him. The rest of the sales force was too moral. Did they tell him they wouldn't sell to him? No. Did they ignore him when he asked for help? No, they ran off leaving me to manage the floor. They left me to do their jobs and got paid for doing nothing. I wasn't going to tell a grown man, whom I also respected, that I wouldn't sell to him because someone said his wife didn't want me to.

I guess my point is tell the truth maybe even ask that they not label it incorrectly but don't refuse to sell to them because of what you think they are going to do. If they label them wrong and you decide not to sell to them then good for you. You are a good person that did the right thing when it is hard. Either way you are still a decent person in my book. Most of the problems in the world are people trying to manage other people. Seriously think of all the hunger and killing arising from trying to make the world a better place.

They are using your name for their legitimacy. They are not trying to help you. Get paid up front.

Now let me give you my view (consumer not legal) on your actual question.
If I knew that you sold them fruit that they mislabeled I would not blame you and would buy from you. Some people will say "you should have known"
If I knew that you sold them fruit that you knew they were going to mislabel I would blame you and not buy from you. Most people will say you were part of the deception.
 
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