• If you have a question about commercial production or the hot sauce business, please post in Startup Help.

fermenting Is fermenting that complicated?

Koreansoul

Koreansoul

I have a question for all of you who ferment. I make Kimchi all the time. I learned how to do it from my mother when I was pretty young. Is there a reason I can't use the same process on peppers? While the fermenting information is great, it seems very complicated for a simple process that kimchi has been undergoing for years. 
 
Thoughts? 
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
I've done kimchi and think a kimchi pepper mix would be awesome. Not sauce like, but a very hot kimchi. I just may try that. Wear gloves and give it a go. (My 2¢)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Greetings Koreansoul,
A simple answer to your question is yes....you can use the same process /approach for peppers as you do with kimchi.
I do it all the time, and have done so for many years. I always have a batch ...or two...or three of kimchi and cabbage in the fridge and eat it daily. And the juice from the kimchi works perfectly as a starter for your pepper ferment.
 
However... there are some differences in the recipe for peppers from that of kimchi, largely due to the vegetables being fermented
As you probably know, the various cabbages commonly used in kimchi are considered "self brining", and they have a high level of moisture that is easily drawn out when pounded a little and some salt is added. The cabbage leaves also have a lot of the natural "good" bacteria (lacto)necessary for the fermentation process to get started  
 
The juices in peppers on the other hand need a little more time and coaxing to get them to release their juices, and although it is totally an option various starters can be added to the recipe to give the lacto bacteria a good "foothold". Additionally, including some sugars and or vegetables high in carbohydrate, give the bacteria a food source, which results in the production of two bi-products, c02 (which displaces the oxygen in the ferment )and acid (which retards the decomposition of the vegetables). The salt that's added serves to give the lacto bacteria a little head start as well, along with drawing out the natural juices, and in the case of cabbage, cucumbers,carrots,helps them maintain a crisp crunchy texture for a while longer.
 
 
Here's a link to a thread I posted several years ago that contains some photo's and the particular recipe I followed for that batch, of kimchi and sauerkraut. which has been serving as an ongoing generation of starters in most of my pepper ferments ever since.
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/23486-fermented-kraut-and-kim-chi-with-kefir/?hl=%2Bfermented+%2Bvegetables
 
Regards,
CM
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
+1 on Chile Monsta's comments... I also use kimchi brine to innoculate pepper mashes when making sauces, and usually add a tablespoon of honey or agave nectar to the mash to give it a push in the right direction when getting started. Try to keep everything very clean when making up the mash, and don't open up the fermentation container for any reason while fermentation is going on... that lets in oxygen and contaminants. I just use a wide-mouthed one gallon glass jar and periodically unscrew the lid just enough to vent excess CO2 without actually removing it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
great comments so far. i generally use something additional with the peppers like carrot, sweet potato, a tropical fruit, garlic, onion. if i did only peppers, i might consider an innoculant, but i think if you have other veggies that are bound to have a few extra sugars and plenty of biology on them already, you don't need to worry about adding microbes and can treat it exactly like kimchi, only using a brine (54 g in 1 L water = a 5.4% brine) instead of letting the moisture of the veggies make the brine as was already suggested.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hoibot, 
 
My idea is to use peppers and other fruits/veggies. Garlic is a must. I'll post pictures when I do it. I've already got some fermenting right now. I'm also going to try to make peppers for a business so I'm trying out some recipes. :) 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
hehe, me too Korean Soul, selling pickled chiles is a dream of mine, please post some recipes you feel like sharing when you have good results :)
 
I was thinking of using whey (I make.. so much yogurt) to make a low salt ferment, I'm also down for trying to use my Sourdough hooch as mentioned in the starters thread.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Salsa, yes I did read it. That's why I asked if it really is all that complicated lol. My mom had me help her make kimchi when I was a wee child (laugh) and we never used all of the dingamabobs and I never got botulism :D. So I was a little confused. 
 
Slizarus, I wonder what that would taste like? I've always associated hot sauce with salt and/or vinegar. 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Koreansoul, 
From my very limited experience making kimchi and ferments...and a lot of time on THP ( :lol:), the issues with the 2 different ferments seems to be that cabbage ferments very easily and other vegetables not so easily.  Chile peppers, onions, garlic, and some of the other vegetables or fruits that folks commonly use in ferments don't naturally start the fermentation process as easily as cabbage does.  That's why a lot of people use starters (whey, kefir, 'kraut juice, kimchi juice, sourdough hooch) to kickstart the fermentation process with the vegetables.
 
I've seen a lot of threads where people do start their chile ferments without any starter.  It does work, but there seems to be a higher risk of it going bad, and when folks are dealing with peppers they've slaved over since soaking the seeds in December to harvesting in October, they don't want to risk having it go bad.  They'd rather give it a little push with a bit of starter.  Sometimes they only have a few special chiles, and again, don't want to risk it kinking. 
 
My mom made sauerkraut, and like your mom's kimchi, we never had any issues with it going bad.
 
SL   
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sometimes I wonder if people area  little worried. I think salt, some fruit, and time would work pretty well. I think an airlock works better with peppers too. We'll see what happens when I make some lol. 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It might be but I wonder if it's more about taste. We eat fermented soybean paste (Doenjang) in Korean food. the longer it ferments the more complex the taste is. I know people who have Doenjang that is over 30 years old. That 30 year old ferment is prized and only used on special occasions. Maybe Americans are just a little scared of fermented foods? :) 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I personally love fermented veggies. I have sauer kraut fermenting for just about a year now. Although, I do take some out out every meal or so, and then add some fresh cabbage back to the "pot". Its basically an ongoing living organism which should live here indefinitely.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Koreansoul said:
Sometimes I wonder if people area  little worried. I think salt, some fruit, and time would work pretty well. I think an airlock works better with peppers too. We'll see what happens when I make some lol. 
Click to expand...
 
Koreansoul said:
It might be but I wonder if it's more about taste. We eat fermented soybean paste (Doenjang) in Korean food. the longer it ferments the more complex the taste is. I know people who have Doenjang that is over 30 years old. That 30 year old ferment is prized and only used on special occasions. Maybe Americans are just a little scared of fermented foods? :)
Click to expand...
 
Personally, I think you are correct on both observations.
Fermented foods,especially cabbage based blends( kimchi)i, are a part of my daily diet....every day....year round.
 
Currently I have several various batches of different fermented vegetables.and around a dozen of hot pepper mash's (all of which that I consume regularly)  ranging from 3 or 4 weeks to around 2-1/2 to 3  years+. I had some green beans with dill & garlic today that I initially fermented around 10 to 11 months ago.
 
The food marketers have tried to grab a piece of the  Pro-biotic benefits craze these days. Fact is, my grandma taught me this lesson 50 years ago. The flavor and healthy attributes is why I have a refrigerator full of fermented foods. And my dear wife tolerates me cramming the shelves of our fridge with my fermented concoctions.
 
And while I regularly and habitually check the pH, I very...very seldom encounter anything that I feel is unsafe to consume. If so, its gets tossed.
Actually, I can't recall how many years it has been since that has occurred, ..at least double digit.
 
There is a fear factor out there that if a food product hasn't been "processed" it is unsafe....IMO....that's a myth.
CM
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
What I think is funny is that it seems to be limited to certain things such as vegetables. Cheeses are consumed aged with no issue and with bacteria showing (such as blue cheese) and we eat aged steaks all the time. Which for all intents and purposes is a process of letting steaks sit on a shelf, in a controlled environment, to rot. Refrigeration is a fairly new invention but it seems that it hasn't taken long for people to forget that there was a lot of canning, pickling, and fermenting going on in order to keep your family well fed in the winter months. 
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I think it's just what people are used to. My Mom ate Sauerkraut my Grandmother made at home but never had the time to make it herself, and the canned stuff in the stores wasn't ever as good, so she never served it to us. Once I discovered homemade 'kraut for myself, I started making it too. I prefer kimchi though, as it has more flavor.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
stickman...have you ever tried adding other spices(including hot pepper flakes) to your sauerkraut ferments?
 
I use caraway seeds a lot to make a Bavarian style kraut. and a couple years back, another THP member (from one of the Scandinavian countries) suggested dried juniper berries...which I tried and have now become a favorite of mine. 
 
Then last summer, I harvested some lavander flowers from one of my wife's plants, and after drying them I tossed them in a batch and was quite thrilled with the unique depth of flavor that brought to my Grandma's simple and basic sauerkraut recipe.
CM
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top