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- Thread starter MGOLD86
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No problem. The beds are 4'x4'. I usually water every 2 days or so for about 40 minutes. I have a dripline soaker hose with 6" emitters. I haven't watered since Thursday night (now about 3 and a half days) because the initial response of people mentioning it could be wet feet. I have mentioned before that the soil is not soaking even down at where the soil meets the ground dirt. I have been getting temps up to about 100 for the past week and although the tops of the beds are dry as a bone, about 2"+ is moist and dark.
As far as lowering the pH, I used a test kit from a box store which I have read is not very reliable. Also since I have a soaker hose I dont have the ability to pre-mix the water and use the dripline. I added a few inches of neutral organic soil to the tops of the beds and then threw down some wheat straw to try to take out some of the nitro and mable drop the ph a few points.
Needles to say I am gonna water this evening (should be good and dry) and see how they react. I am going to stop ferts and go for a deep water (about an hour or so). Hopefully it will flush some of the nasties in the soil and tell me where to go. Although the peppers are not looking good, the tomatoes are fruiting and on bed 2 (with the hab) my tomato plants are booming. They were kind of stalled for a few weeks and all of a sudden they started bushing out and looking amazing. So like I said hopefully I know more tomorrow.
Thanks again everyone, you all are a big help.
Matt
Do you just start with a ton of it in your soil to offset the watering or do you add more as the season goes on?
+1 on that one. Local Tap water here is around 8. I literally only use a SPLASH (ph down) in 30 gallons. My ph is always around 6.2-6.5 Hope this helps!
I agree with the soil. it looks VERY compacted. When that happens, it is going to be very hard to let the roots breath and probably very hard to let the dirt get a point of being dry.
Throw in the fact the tap pH is 9 and that will raise the soil pH. I'd try the 'let the tap water sit in a giant bucket or clean fresh garbage can' idea for a few hours, and then test to see what that does. As already mentioned, experiment with vinegar to lower the pH of the water in the bucket if letting it rest doesn't help much. I've never had this problem, so I googled it and found something that might help
http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/how-lower-your-soil-ph
If your concerned about pH..maybe get some pH down from amazon or whatever. From personal experience, vinegar really doesn't do much to lower the pH and it also creates a lot of salt buildup that will require an occasional flushing. Personally, my pH is around 8 and has been since day 1 and things are fine. I believe in nature and in nature, rain is not pH balanced and plants grow just fine, including peppers. I think sometime people (myself incluced) get way to over worried about the "perfect" scenerio for peppers and other plants. Nature is pretty smart...give it a try
If your concerned about pH..maybe get some pH down from amazon or whatever. From personal experience, vinegar really doesn't do much to lower the pH and it also creates a lot of salt buildup that will require an occasional flushing. Personally, my pH is around 8 and has been since day 1 and things are fine. I believe in nature and in nature, rain is not pH balanced and plants grow just fine, including peppers. I think sometime people (myself incluced) get way to over worried about the "perfect" scenerio for peppers and other plants. Nature is pretty smart...give it a try
I see you don't agree with my thoughts that the tap pH is causing problems.
Maybe it's because I have been an aquarium hobbyist for awhile, but that is the first thing I thought of haha. Anyways, on your point about the rain not being pH balanced, which was a good one, maybe the answer then lies in raising the pH of the soil while still trying to make it less compact? I know that mulching with grass clipping or pine straw can lower a soils pH, but then again that doesn't solve the soil being compact issue and would make the feet of the plants wetter unless watering was cut way back. The ultimate answer might be to transplant the plants to pots, reworking the soil to make it less compact and raise the pH and then retransplanting back into the ground after a few weeks? If the soil is in fact too compact, and the pH is 9, not sure that flushing the soil would help anything. In fact, this might should have been asked earlier, does the original poster use well water? which might be higher in other dissolved minerals than city water?
Just throwing ideas out there. Not very seasoned in this stuff, as I put my peppers in containers and not directly into the ground.
These are just my personal opinions. And for every opinion I have, you will find others that have an opinion in contrast to mine
I also use well water which I believe is actually better for plants than city water (treated).
There are certainly ways to lower the pH and although I don't disagree that a balanced or lower pH is better for plants, I also dont believe your going to seriously injure a plant if its not that way. I believe some soils are better and some are worse, but I also believe plants will grow in all of them. This doesn't mean some soils may not produce better plants, but with a balance of nutrients and water, the plants will grow fine (barring disease). As I said, these are my personal beliefs through my own trials and errors and I certainly do not think my beliefs are the only beliefs. They work for me....
I will say I have been growing peppers for many years and this is my first year growing in pots thanks to the advice from great folks on here. Growing in pots CERTAINLY has shown to be a better alternative than in the ground. My plants are bigger and healthier this season. I attribute this to being able to control moisture and nutrients myself. I have also been able to move them around and protect them when weather hits..unlike planting in the ground.
I also use well water which I believe is actually better for plants than city water (treated).
There are certainly ways to lower the pH and although I don't disagree that a balanced or lower pH is better for plants, I also dont believe your going to seriously injure a plant if its not that way. I believe some soils are better and some are worse, but I also believe plants will grow in all of them. This doesn't mean some soils may not produce better plants, but with a balance of nutrients and water, the plants will grow fine (barring disease). As I said, these are my personal beliefs through my own trials and errors and I certainly do not think my beliefs are the only beliefs. They work for me....
I will say I have been growing peppers for many years and this is my first year growing in pots thanks to the advice from great folks on here. Growing in pots CERTAINLY has shown to be a better alternative than in the ground. My plants are bigger and healthier this season. I attribute this to being able to control moisture and nutrients myself. I have also been able to move them around and protect them when weather hits..unlike planting in the ground.
You got that right. I planted in the ground some years ago and got mediocre results. I planted in pots last year and got better results. After doing some research on here, upgrading my soil and increasing the container size, I am getting great results this year so far!
Re: flushing
Flushing the soil is the main cure IF the plants have been over-fertilized. My thought was they mighta had too much fert then the heat knocked them for a loop.
After reading more posts, if the soil is too compacted to flush, it might better just to ride it out. A cheap probe soil moisture tester would be useful throughout the season to get an idea if the water is perched in there. If the probe tells you it is still saturated at root depth, might be best just to let it continue to dry over time. Anybdy else?
Since you started this thread, has there been ANY improvement or worsening in the affected peppers? Even the slightest improvement might mean to just maintain the status quo.
Also you mentioned watering in evening. I always thought morning watering was better as there will be less fungus and mold build up if things dry during the day. (Maybe this is just a one time thing to do the flush...)
Man, it is tough to reccomend things that have worked for me, but might not for another grower....
Flushing the soil is the main cure IF the plants have been over-fertilized. My thought was they mighta had too much fert then the heat knocked them for a loop.
After reading more posts, if the soil is too compacted to flush, it might better just to ride it out. A cheap probe soil moisture tester would be useful throughout the season to get an idea if the water is perched in there. If the probe tells you it is still saturated at root depth, might be best just to let it continue to dry over time. Anybdy else?
Since you started this thread, has there been ANY improvement or worsening in the affected peppers? Even the slightest improvement might mean to just maintain the status quo.
Also you mentioned watering in evening. I always thought morning watering was better as there will be less fungus and mold build up if things dry during the day. (Maybe this is just a one time thing to do the flush...)
Man, it is tough to reccomend things that have worked for me, but might not for another grower....
time for what hell
please try the most obvious "fix" first
if it is too wet try to let it dry out
if it is too much pH try to lower
if it is too much ferts try to back off
myself i would get a big long 1/2" drill bit(or larger as long as it is a good long one)and bore holes
into the planting area to aerate and improve the drainagerating there
try them on a 2" grid with one hole at least 14" deep at the cross hairs
the small amount of root damage from a half inch hole will easily repairate
it self in just a little time. the holes may allow a little air into that area
and might help with the drainage some, my nit wit math says to drill 576 holes
in each 4' square bed and that sounds like a fun afternoon (or two)
who knows maybe the roots will go straight down those holes and find what they think(
KNOW)what they need
please try the most obvious "fix" first
if it is too wet try to let it dry out
if it is too much pH try to lower
if it is too much ferts try to back off
myself i would get a big long 1/2" drill bit(or larger as long as it is a good long one)and bore holes
into the planting area to aerate and improve the drainagerating there
try them on a 2" grid with one hole at least 14" deep at the cross hairs
the small amount of root damage from a half inch hole will easily repairate
it self in just a little time. the holes may allow a little air into that area
and might help with the drainage some, my nit wit math says to drill 576 holes
in each 4' square bed and that sounds like a fun afternoon (or two)
who knows maybe the roots will go straight down those holes and find what they think(
KNOW)what they needThese are a lot of great recommendations. I am following you on the soil being compact. I went to a local nursery today and talked to the veggie guy. For the pH he gave me a bag of organic soil acidifier. I am going to throw that on tonight and water it in good. Also, I am going to keep the water as is. He gets great results, and he is on the same water. As far as aerating the soil, I have a drill bit and can defnitely knock that out and maybe it will work a bit. Shouldn't be too bad. As far as has anything changed, not really. Nothing has gotten worse but nothing is better. I know that the soil at the deepest is not too wet. So I am not worried about watter logged plants. I will let you know how it all goes. Thanks again.
So a bit of an update, it has been about a week since I transplanted my peppers into 3 gal containers. They seem to look much better (I am sure you will tell me). I think that the older leaves are goners. They perked up a bit but stayed off colored. A few days ago new leaves began to come out and now I can definitely tell a difference. I am going to give them another shot of ferts tomorrow morning (1 week apart) and I gave them a foliar spray twice this week with the neptune's harvest 0-0-1 seaweed. I think things are going much better but if anyone sees anything or has any recommendations please let me know.
I found Promix BX local. They only had the 2.8 cu ft bags and they were 17.95 each. I went back the next day to get another 2 bags and they were on sale for 14.95! Gotta love the timing.
BUT they did give me some other stuff to make up for it.
After digging my plants up I am sure that there was a drainage issue. The soil was not soaking, it was just pretty moist, and I didnt water in over 5 days.
You can see the new leaves on the top of these. I am guessing that they will just remain the way that they are.
So let me know what ya think. I am much happier now that I know that they aren't dieing!
I found Promix BX local. They only had the 2.8 cu ft bags and they were 17.95 each. I went back the next day to get another 2 bags and they were on sale for 14.95! Gotta love the timing.
BUT they did give me some other stuff to make up for it.
After digging my plants up I am sure that there was a drainage issue. The soil was not soaking, it was just pretty moist, and I didnt water in over 5 days.
You can see the new leaves on the top of these. I am guessing that they will just remain the way that they are.
So let me know what ya think. I am much happier now that I know that they aren't dieing!
boy there is sure a change from the older leaves and newer ones
you may consider trying to improve your inground growing area before replanting it
the compost and other amendments can turn that stuff from a problem into a proud of
i think if you double dig the whole area down like 18 inches or so and start rebuilding the soil you
can have the envy of the neighborhood (as far as gardens go)the picture of the soil in hand looks really rich
and i bet it is really good stuff that just needs a little modification for good results
please consider the tilling of the soil as preliminary this go around
i hope the potting with the promix works as expected (lots of great growers use it)
please do not give up and try to have fun with it
we will be watching for your updates
good growing
you may consider trying to improve your inground growing area before replanting it
the compost and other amendments can turn that stuff from a problem into a proud of
i think if you double dig the whole area down like 18 inches or so and start rebuilding the soil you
can have the envy of the neighborhood (as far as gardens go)the picture of the soil in hand looks really rich
and i bet it is really good stuff that just needs a little modification for good results
please consider the tilling of the soil as preliminary this go around
i hope the potting with the promix works as expected (lots of great growers use it)
please do not give up and try to have fun with it
we will be watching for your updates
good growing
I am definitely not going to just disregard the beds. I plan on finishing the growing season in the pots with the peppers and next season I will be tilling the ground and I think that the ground under the box is pretty tough, so I will work it so it becomes a bit more loose. Also after reading Silver Surfer's thread I am gonna use some of his tips.
Thanks for the support and I will keep you updated.
looking at the pictures i think it could be low night time temperatures and also i do not like all that wood chip on the ground a feed of liquid fertilizer could also help. chillies do not like cold feet. it could be difficult for these plants to fully recover now. please post more pictures later to see what happens good luck
Nice rescue mission, sir! That new growth looks encouraging, and with your warm weather, you should get some real progress.
My only suggestion: some of those stems are kinda skinny, so in those pots, I'd top up another inch or two with Pro Mix if you still have some. Deeper medium might give them a bit more root structure. Regardless, I bet you fill those pots with a nice fat healthy root ball this summer....
My only suggestion: some of those stems are kinda skinny, so in those pots, I'd top up another inch or two with Pro Mix if you still have some. Deeper medium might give them a bit more root structure. Regardless, I bet you fill those pots with a nice fat healthy root ball this summer....
Looking better! This being my first season I also overwatered due to poor drainage, etc., etc. just like what you experienced and had the same issues you did. However, I did not seek help as early as you did, shame on me, and lost two plants in the process. So congrats in putting pride aside and asking for help when you needed it. For my drainage I put about 20 3/4" holes in the bottom and sides of all my buckets, as well as added a lot of perlite to the mix to make it nice and aery. I also bought one of the moisture meters someone else had suggested to you and they do help even if they are not 100% accurate, at least it gives you an idea right? I have found if you just leave them alone and let them do their own thing they tend to like it.