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Isolating peppers

S

schrade82

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this, but I had a question about isolating peppers to get true seeds when I harvest

I am getting ready to plant and have about 20 different varieties of peppers. For the most part I have 1 or maybe 2 of each plant. I'd like to save seeds from some pods when I harvest to plant next year and give away on here, but not sure how to prevent cross pollinating due to space constraints. I've got a couple raised beds and will put some in pots, but still not sure what's going where. A friend suggested cheese cloth, which I could do on certain branches, not the whole plant. Any other suggestions or should I even worry about it?
 
Start with the "should you worry about it" part. I have grown many different varieties and do not isolate. But then, nor do I sell my seeds. I do give them away, but I also tell people that I do not isolate. The big thing here is that the people I give pods/seeds to know what they are getting and have appropriate expectations. If I was selling, however, isolating would be very important to me. So the biggest question you have to ask yourself is what you intend to do with your seeds/pods, then ask if isolating matters for your intended purpose. 
 
After that, know that most chiles cross rather readily, except pubescens won't cross with any other type except another pubescen. Annuums and chinenses cross easily. However, as anyone intent on creating a hybrid knows, most seeds will still grow true to the parents. And even if they don't, the cross is unstable for the first several generations - a crossed plant may effectively revert back to one of its parent's type when producing pods. There is (or maybe was....) a good chart of which types cross and how with other types on thechileman.org - check the articles out on that site.
 
So let's say isolating is important to you after considering these things. Yes, some kind of barrier is in order. People have used teabag-sized pockets of fabric to isolate individual flowers, put bags around whole plants, put individual varieties in their own greenhouses, etc. Depends on the amount of effort and money you want to put into it. There are those who insist that simply keeping them apart so many feet or yards does it. I and many others disagree - how do you know which plant a bee or other insect visited before visiting your plant? Some say miles apart works, but then ask the guy who had plants two miles apart and no known other peppers in between what he thinks when some of his 'x' plants produced pods like 'y' plants. 
 
Really it's up to you and your circumstances.
 
I agree with Geeme - that's why I prefer to trade seeds I know are "true" - like seeds I bought from a respected vendor. I personally don't have the time to isolate.
 
geeme said:
Start with the "should you worry about it" part. I have grown many different varieties and do not isolate. But then, nor do I sell my seeds. I do give them away, but I also tell people that I do not isolate. The big thing here is that the people I give pods/seeds to know what they are getting and have appropriate expectations. If I was selling, however, isolating would be very important to me. So the biggest question you have to ask yourself is what you intend to do with your seeds/pods, then ask if isolating matters for your intended purpose. 
 
After that, know that most chiles cross rather readily, except pubescens won't cross with any other type except another pubescen. Annuums and chinenses cross easily. However, as anyone intent on creating a hybrid knows, most seeds will still grow true to the parents. And even if they don't, the cross is unstable for the first several generations - a crossed plant may effectively revert back to one of its parent's type when producing pods. There is (or maybe was....) a good chart of which types cross and how with other types on thechileman.org - check the articles out on that site.
 
So let's say isolating is important to you after considering these things. Yes, some kind of barrier is in order. People have used teabag-sized pockets of fabric to isolate individual flowers, put bags around whole plants, put individual varieties in their own greenhouses, etc. Depends on the amount of effort and money you want to put into it. There are those who insist that simply keeping them apart so many feet or yards does it. I and many others disagree - how do you know which plant a bee or other insect visited before visiting your plant? Some say miles apart works, but then ask the guy who had plants two miles apart and no known other peppers in between what he thinks when some of his 'x' plants produced pods like 'y' plants. 
 
Really it's up to you and your circumstances.
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Bob_B said:
I agree with Geeme - that's why I prefer to trade seeds I know are "true" - like seeds I bought from a respected vendor. I personally don't have the time to isolate.
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I was just looking to do it so I could keep some seeds and be sure they grew true. That and wanted to be able to pay it forward on here by giving some away since that's how I got some of my seeds. Thanks for the info though about which types cross pollinate, I will check out the link you suggested. I may just note they are open pollinated when I give some away or try team bags type cover over blooms just to give it a try. definitely looking for something cheaper and easy.

LawrenceJ2007 said:
This is how I do it. 
http://www.gardeners.com/Row-Covers/5111,default,pg.html
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That looks interesting. Do you cover individual plants or just wrap certain branches/blooms? Which type of cover do you use?
 
I'll do the rows of peppers, so if I want to isolate lets say a Brown moruga I'll cover the row of the morgues so they are true. I use the summer weight fabric. It lets most of the light in but does not allow insects to get to the plants so blocks the transmission of pollen by the insects!
 
I don't disagree with coheed, that' what I used when I started.The problem I've found with the smaller bags is blossoms drop from heat or lack of air circulation. The larger bags allow more air circulation and you can bag a larger branch. I've also used the 5 gallon strainers and I could blossom bag a whole bunch of branches with the larger bags.
 
Thanks for all the great ideas!  Sounds like there are a variety of ways to do it.
 
I just saw another chain and a guy actually mentioned putting glue on the flower before it opens and marking the branch...
 
schrade82 said:
Thanks for all the great ideas!  Sounds like there are a variety of ways to do it.
 
I just saw another chain and a guy actually mentioned putting glue on the flower before it opens and marking the branch...
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I've done this, and it seemed to work fine. My girlfriend had some scrapbooking glue that was acid-free, so I used that... not sure it would matter if you used normal glue or not. 
 
I just waited until the flower looked like it was about to open, then covered the tip of the flower in glue and let it dry. I let it sit for a couple days and then just flicked the closed flower every now and then until a pepper started growing!
 
I'm sure it would! Some people use coffee filters over them just rubber band it on there. There are many ways just find the way that suits you financially and personally.
 
coheed196 said:
I use these
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=110876034647

There are probably cheaper ones, that's just the first link I clicked on. Different sizes, colors, etc. Obviously you can't cover the whole plant. What I do is just cover a couple different nodes/cluster of buds.
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I did this last year. Still have a ton of wedding bags left over and will probably do it again.
 
neoguy said:
I don't disagree with coheed, that' what I used when I started.The problem I've found with the smaller bags is blossoms drop from heat or lack of air circulation. The larger bags allow more air circulation and you can bag a larger branch. I've also used the 5 gallon strainers and I could blossom bag a whole bunch of branches with the larger bags.
Click to expand...
 
Interesting. I did see some blossom drop last year but I attributed it to those flowers just not getting pollinated because the bag was keeping the insects away. I had about 50% success with natural pollination of those bagged flowers.
 
The blossoms don't need insects, but need wind and air circulation to self pollinate, or you could simply flick the branches a couple times a day.
 
Jeff H said:
 
I did this last year. Still have a ton of wedding bags left over and will probably do it again.
 
 
Interesting. I did see some blossom drop last year but I attributed it to those flowers just not getting pollinated because the bag was keeping the insects away. I had about 50% success with natural pollination of those bagged flowers.
Click to expand...
 
Jeff H said:
 
I did this last year. Still have a ton of wedding bags left over and will probably do it again.
 
 
Interesting. I did see some blossom drop last year but I attributed it to those flowers just not getting pollinated because the bag was keeping the insects away. I had about 50% success with natural pollination of those bagged flowers.
Click to expand...
I saw a little blossom drop but like Jeff, I figured it was due to not being pollinated. I would just shake the bag and I would have maybe 4 flowers per bag and 1-2 would pollinate
 
You could also glue the flowers shut on a couple pods from each plant. Some glue will kill the flower so it was kinda trial and error when i did it. Elmers glue works but if it gets wet they can pop open.. Now your flowers that stay glued will balloon up and most pollinate themselves. I cut a piece of a straw into a band and then cut it so i could open it and tag the bud.
 
I have been using the glue method for a long time and like the others say some glues will kill the flowers or let the flower open when it gets wet I use a natural water resistant wood glue, some wood glues are acidic or Alkali some fabric glues will work well also it just a matter of finding one that will work mostly trial and error. I just put a small amount of glue on the flower buds just before they open, make sure you tag them so that you don't forget what is what. You can use reusable tea bags that you can buy at a health food store if you have cluster of flower buds, When I first started growing peppers to trade the seeds, I built several cages that I covered in mosquito net, needless to say some of the plants out grew the cages thats when I started using the glue method I still tell people that I trade with,  that I use the glue method and that they should treat the seeds as if they were open pollinated as there is still a tiny chance that they might have crossed at some point, maybe before I got them.
 
561404_3897332226332_1386412507_n.jpg


i put the bag over the bud. when it bloomed I opened the  bag without taking it off and fondled the flower with a paintbrush. then closed it back up
 
pshngo said:
561404_3897332226332_1386412507_n.jpg


i put the bag over the bud. when it bloomed I opened the  bag without taking it off and fondled the flower with a paintbrush. then closed it back up
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Nice, is that cheese clothe? or what kind of material?
 
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