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ISSUES! Help!

imidicloprid is the ravenous bee murder you heard about on naturalnews.com.

id love to discuss that, but alas, as experience shows, we are likely to get the thread deleted.
 
Thank you nzchili for that great information.
 
I would imagine that being so aggressive, there is a point where it becomes harmful? It must get into the fruit eventually?

queequeg152, researching it. thanks!
 
Plutonium for bees!  The stuff is fairly persistent in treated soil, so if you're going to use it, do so now.to Nuke the Aphids, and then discontinue some months before you anticipate blossoms.  Even single-digit parts-per-billion in the pollen will slaughter any bees that come to pollinate your pods.
 
There's a big controversy over the stuff.  It's been banned in several countries.
TrBee Huggers claim it should be completely banned, and Bayer - the manufacturer of one of the more popular varieties - conveniently argues that the risks are greatly over-rated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_bees
 
Here's a dramatic example of how minute amounts of the stuff can affect bees.  Farmers in adjacent fields have just planted seeds that are coated with a few milligrams of neonicitinoid. The insecticide is taken up by the plant as it grows and offers life-long (?) protection against many pests.  As the corn seed rattle through the planting machine, tiny amounts of the coating are worn away and become airborne.  This blows away, settles in trees up to miles away, and poisons the bees when they forage on the pollen. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxXXaILuK5s
 
Geonerd said:
Plutonium for bees!  The stuff is fairly persistent in treated soil, so if you're going to use it, do so now.to Nuke the Aphids, and then discontinue some months before you anticipate blossoms.  Even single-digit parts-per-billion in the pollen will slaughter any bees that come to pollinate your pods.
 
There's a big controversy over the stuff.  It's been banned in several countries.
TrBee Huggers claim it should be completely banned, and Bayer - the manufacturer of one of the more popular varieties - conveniently argues that the risks are greatly over-rated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_bees
 
Here's a dramatic example of how minute amounts of the stuff can affect bees.  Farmers in adjacent fields have just planted seeds that are coated with a few milligrams of neonicitinoid. The insecticide is taken up by the plant as it grows and offers life-long (?) protection against many pests.  As the corn seed rattle through the planting machine, tiny amounts of the coating are worn away and become airborne.  This blows away, settles in trees up to miles away, and poisons the bees when they forage on the pollen. 
Click to expand...
god i cant resit.

first. its never been banned any any country as of my knowlage. its use has been mostly suspended pending a 5 year or so investigation. this is in several european countries.

imidicloprid is off patent, bayer makes a small portion of the imidicloprid used in farm fields etc. bayer to my knowledge does not make seed coatings at all.
all bayer produces is household imidicloprid water emulsions at inflated prices.

your video, the one we discussed in that thread that guy got closed, forgot his name, but that video is of some asshole not handling his seeding equipment correctly.
imidicloprid seed treatments are absolutly deadly to insects, but almost all guidlines ive read extensivly caution against poor handling.

there are like 100 seed coating technologies. some are just bentonite clay, and others are a polymer coating. clay and other friable seed coatings have to be handled far far differently to that of the polymer coated seeds.

alot of seeding equipment uses pneumatic actuators, and or jets of air to agitate hoppers or drive miscellaneous processes. this type of equipment is ill suited for handling dust prone clay seed treatments. this has been known since like the early 2000's.

that farmer is an asshole.

imidicloprid, or for that matter any neonic that i know of will absolutly not protect a plant for the life of the crop. the seed treatment is good for maby 6-8 weeks. corn is something like a 4 month crop.


it does not persist for a long time, or at least by my definition of long.... in most soil conditions its likely to see a 21 day half life. it binds strongly to clays and mineral particles. it does not leach readily.

its not the contaminated pollen that is thought to ruin the bees, its the minute sub lethal doses of imidicloprid in the nectar that is thought to break their brains, and make them retarded.

however, that study that guy linked, the one from harvard that every one creamed their pants about, was bullshit, predicated on a level of imidicloprid in the nectar that has never been shown to exist. id of loved to talk about that in the closed thread, but alas screaming and hand waving won the day.
 
Delta said:
Thank you nzchili for that great information.
 
I would imagine that being so aggressive, there is a point where it becomes harmful? It must get into the fruit eventually?

queequeg152, researching it. thanks!
Click to expand...
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]The packet says (I think) a with holding period of 3 days for capsicum. Its not a very long period either way. The poison in itself is not very harmful to mammals, but as mentioned, even minute amounts is fatal for insects. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]All the other info about it that has been mentioned is correct, it can be very nasty stuff to many insects and its use is quite c[/SIZE]ontroversial.
 
One must be mindful of what it can do, and do what you can to minimize the risks if you choose to use it.
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
 
nzchili said:
 
[SIZE=11pt]Imadacloprid, is an active ingredient, made by Bayer Crop Science, and is the main active ingredient in a class of insecticides called "Systemic" insecticides.  [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11pt]"Systemic", is a term used to denote a circulatory system. What this means in context, is that the poison is absorbed by the plant, and is fed through its circulatory system through its leaves, stems, buds, flowers, everything - making the plant poisonous from the inside out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]A couple of applications can make the plant permanently poisonous to sucking insects. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11pt]Some seeds are even treated with the chemical to make them poisonous to sucking insects from the get-go.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11pt]Its available under several different names.  In pre-mixed, or granular forms.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11pt]Iv got some orange tress, that were literally covered with hundreds of thousands of white flies last week. Looked at it yesterday after hitting it with the imid. Did not see a single living white fly. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11pt]EDIT; its a chemical though, and is as far from organic as you can get. Its like nuclear war..really steps things up a few notches. [/SIZE]
Click to expand...
Where did you get yours from bro?
My lime tress are absolutely infested with whitefly
 
Swampy_NZ said:
Where did you get yours from bro?
My lime tress are absolutely infested with whitefly
Click to expand...
Bunnings, under the "confidor" name.
 
Make sure you get the concentrate sachets though, not the pre-mix (no doubt youd figure that out anyway). The pre-mix is like $18 for 750ml, whereas the sachets are like $23 and make 25litres. (5 x sachets that make 5L each)
I used about half of a 5L mix on two orange tress, then maybe a liter on all of my pepper plants. Im gonna follow up with the rest of that mix on Sunday. So far its working better then other things I have tried, with zero leaf damage  
 
Hmmmm...
 
I'm not terribly against Imid. I find better options myself, but might use it in a pinch.
 
 
What I really came to fire poke about, is that if you're relying on a farmers due diligence for the safe and proper handling of pesticides, better hope your water system isn't connected to his.... I think no one explained "Don't shit in your own backyard" to them as children.
 
there are unscrupulous assholes every where in every profession. just the other day, some asshole was servicing his car in the street... a curb and gutter street mind you. naturally he allowed the entirety of his transmission fluid to drain onto the road. the next rain we get will wash it all down stream surely. its been like two days, ive not seen even a spec of kitty litter employed to rectify this mistake.

assholes.

the biggest pollutor of surface water is indeed farmers. alot of folks think that 'big buisness', some shady assholes dumping things into rivers are the main culprit, but its just not.
its farms and cattle.
 
queequeg152 said:
imidicloprid is off patent, bayer makes a small portion of the imidicloprid used in farm fields etc. bayer to my knowledge does not make seed coatings at all.
all bayer produces is household imidicloprid water emulsions at inflated prices.
Click to expand...
ok so turns out that was bullshit.

i been reading again, and it turns out that the bayer crop science division makes a shitload of seed coatings. they are one of the top producers of seed treatments in europe, and to a lesser extent in the usa as well.

i knew bayer produced a shit load of other agricultural related chemicals and equipment, but not so much the sead coatings.
I assumed this, because from what i understand, its a trivial process, just get a spray dryer, coating pans etc, fluidized drying bed, any asshole can coat seeds.

its not clear to me if Bayer produces the seeds themselves, or licenses the technology and equipment or what.

poking around ive assumulated some documents and links you folks might be interested, ill post them whenever i get the time.
 
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