Let's say you want to go commercial... what considerations are needed?

What sorts of things are needed for taking a hot sauce to the commercial market in the USA? Besides a business license obviously.

Do you need FDA stamps of approval? I found this... http://www.fda.gov/F...ies/default.htm

Where do the Nutritional Information stickers come from?

What about health inspections of prep area, how is that conducted?

Are there procedural guidelines that must be followed from a regulatory standpoint?

What about Patents?

I have a few recipes that I'd like to take to the commercial market, but I definitely want to make sure I'm minding my p's and q's.
 
salsalady said:
My start up for making fresh salsa in a shared use kitchen was about half that.  And there are things like an LLC which are a good idea but are not REQUIRED for a start up.   
 
My insurance is about $500/year through Liberty Mutual, I've seen others quote around $500.  $1,500 sounds high. 
 
Also, I just saw some info from the state of PA for home based food businesses and according to the way it reads, it is possible to do a sauce business out of the home. 
There are a lot of variables of course. I'm insured through the Hartford with good rates, but I've got my inventory insured at the distributor, and all of my markets have a rider, my vehicle has business insurance, etc.

If doing out of the home it may require modifications to the kitchen - the state still needs to inspect & certify your kitchen as "safe" for food mfgr, so it's not as simple as it sounds.

Anyway, my point it that even if it is $5K to get rolling. Assuming $5 a bottle you've gotta sell 1000 bottles to break even plus the cost to make those 1000 bottles (likely $1-2/btl) - and remember, small scale = higher cost for everything - bottles, ingredients, etc. as well as carrying/storage costs if any.

I'm not saying it can't be done - nor am
I trying to be a naysayer. I'm just saying it can be quite expensive for a hobby. There are certainly more expensive hobbies like art collecting & auto racing, but $5K to sell a couple hundred bottles online is a lot to some folks.

Not arguing, just adding an alternate perspective to the discussion & keeping it real.
:cheers:
 
Oh I know, LDHS, each scenario is different.  Not arguing either. 
 
I think that too many times people put the cart before the horse.  LDHS, Defcon, and others have spent many years perfecting the sauce before even looking at names or logos or marketing.  Get the perfect sauce, give it away to friends and family, do some give-aways on forums in exchange for hard critical feedback, re-work the sauce, get it exactly the same every single time you make it........THEN worry about logos and names, etc....
 
salsalady said:
 
I think that too many times people put the cart before the horse.  LDHS, Defcon, and others have spent many years perfecting the sauce before even looking at names or logos or marketing.  Get the perfect sauce, give it away to friends and family, do some give-aways on forums in exchange for hard critical feedback, re-work the sauce, get it exactly the same every single time you make it........THEN worry about logos and names, etc....
Amen! :cheers:
 
(I think that too many times people put the cart before the horse.  LDHS, Defcon, and others have spent many years perfecting the sauce before even looking at names or logos or marketing.  Get the perfect sauce, give it away to friends and family, do some give-aways on forums in exchange for hard critical feedback, re-work the sauce, get it exactly the same every single time you make it........THEN worry about logos and names, etc....)
 
Grasshopper (me) is paying attention to the thread ;) .  I have a tendency to get caught up in the marketing part because I just find it so fun and interesting (my parents say I used to do my own thing during TV shows, then I shushed everyone and focused when the commercials came on... quoting along the way).  Make no mistake though, I'm pumping out multiple versions of a limited number of sauces and copiously documenting ingredients.  I'm always scanning for friends and family to provide feedback.  Gonna have to do a forum give-away real soon. 
 
I know the statement was a general one, but I can tell you I sure fit the bill.  I can't imagine trying to get this thing going without a resource like THP... you all are an invaluable resource with tons of incredible advice... keep it coming!  
 
TSK
 
P.S. Don't know how I screwed up the above quote, but... like I said... I'm just a grasshopper... still learning. 
 
It's all good, Grasshopper...  :)
 
I guess, one of the main things I hear all the time is... "everyone says this is a great sauce and I should sell it.  What should I do?".  I guess this is the basis for the cart/horse comment.  And Friends and family will never give you a truly honest review for fear of hurting the person's feelings because they are ...."FRIENDS & FAMILY"!
 
When a person has made the sauce umpteen times for F&F, and they have the sauce perfected EVERY time, then it's time to get some feedback from the general public.
 
When I was in the R&D phase for the Tropical and Ghost Fire sauces, I put an offer out on a [totally not food related forum] for free samples in exchange for a fairly detailed product review from the recipients.  They could reply anonymous if desired....but... the point was, they were not personally related to me and if they had negative comments, they could feel comfortable saying so. 
 
There were some negative comments, which I took into consideration and refined the sauces.  One of the sauces has received a Scovie, a THPA and couple 2nd place Golden Chiles.  The other sauce got a 2nd place in the THPA, and has not been entered in either of the other competitions.
 
Roger that. I would hope no one gets into this with a "just tell me everything is great" type attitude. If you don't want to hear the bad with the good, then you can't expect to improve your product. I'm looking forward to some "straight talk" type reviews. I am blessed with a thick skin and a desire to put out the best product possible, so no comments will upset me when I get to that point. It's all good.
 
thescovillekid said:
Roger that. I would hope no one gets into this with a "just tell me everything is great" type attitude. If you don't want to hear the bad with the good, then you can't expect to improve your product. I'm looking forward to some "straight talk" type reviews. I am blessed with a thick skin and a desire to put out the best product possible, so no comments will upset me when I get to that point. It's all good.
Thick skin is going to be your greatest attribute. 
 
When you work on something for umteen hours, pouring your heart & soul into it, living & dying with every drop, you get very invested.  With each oz of investment, your sensitivity can grow - you can easily get defensive or protective. 
 
My final test after the "give 100s of bottles to strangers, many in the food business and get feedback" was to send to a reviewer to get a "professional" opinion - which is how I found THP in the 1st place. I sent to a pair of reviewers here and they generously reviewed it as they would have any product. Fortunately the negatives were already things I was aware of and was working to correct (e.g. hard bits of seed/mouth feel - my copacker has a grinder, so that was a non-issue) - and when I came time to finalize the label I posted it here because 50 pairs of eyes are way better than my own. Especially when I'd been looking at the label for months through the design phase - makes you a little blind to the subtle issues with it. 
 
So always be open to feedback regardless of how critical. It's never easy to take, but you have to be open to it. 
 
That said, not everyone is going to love your product - there's always someone who's tastes differ dramatically from your own. So you have to also be able to recognize when someone's criticism is just the 1-off. You cannot change everything to appeal to all people - you'll never finalize anything that way. So it's a delicate balance between taking criticism, separating the wheat from the chaff, and using intuition to tell you when something is right even if some disapprove. 
 
Here's an example: when I sent in my products to the National Association for Specialty Food Trade while applying for membership candidacy, part of what you get with your acceptance/$100 application fee is feedback from industry professionals. These are grocery store owners, chefs, restaurant owners, etc. It's 5-6 categories, with "blinded" feedback.  The feedback on flavor profile was 90% great, with 1 person saying flatly that they "hated" the flavor of my Green. That's the sauce that I won 1st place in the pretty broad "Mild" category at Zestfest to get a Golden Chile.  In the branding/marketing category, there were 8 or 9 responses, all very positive, some even glowingly.  One response was "would suggest a total re-branding of the product. Don't see what a dog/horseshoe has to do with hot sauce. Need to put images of the ingredients on the label so people know what it is."  - I kept thinking, does Tapatio have peppers on the label? Does Choulula? Does Sriracha or Tiger Sauce or Tabasco, etc, etc, etc? No - they don't.  And this was an National Association of Specialty Foods Trade senior member providing this feedback, which I promptly ignored in the face of the other 8 or 9 responses who loved my labeling. 
 
Just sayin - you can't be all things to all people. Feedback is great, but you also need to trust your intuition and figure out which feedback is worth taking to heart & which can be ignored. 
 
Greetings all. So I have read all the information provided here and all I have to say is wow! Although a bit too much information to take in in one sitting it is great information. Thank you for shedding your knowledge. I will be a sponge and absorbed as much as I possibly can to take my salsa idea further. Once again thank you.
 
:welcome: Raul
 
As you've alluded, there's tons of information here just for the reading.  Good luck on your salsa venture! 
 
salsalady
 
T/hank you Salsalady. As of right now I have several recipes that I have been working on but three in particular. Two are practically done and still making adjustments to the third one. I have been selling to friends and family but I'm afraid to go beyond since I'm not licensed or insured for that matter. So far I have received mostly great reviews but also a few constructive comments which I took in consideration while making what I feel were my final touches on two of the salsas. 
 When I first received a message from THP about submitting a sample for the competition I was extremely excited until I read the requirements and one of them was to be labeled and ready for sale. Unfortunately I'm not anywhere near. I've been working on getting a nutritional analysis done but the more I read the more I realized that that's not even all that I have to do. As far as my understanding goes once I get the nutritional analysis I have to get the FDA to approve it. I'm a bit confused on that matter. Also I have been looking into possibly getting a co-packer to bottle my salsa instead of me doing the work, I feel this could be less of a headache just because of all the legalities such as having a kitchen, inspectors, licenses, etc.. The issue is that I contacted several co-packers throughout California and two responded. One told me they weren't doing co-packing at the time. The other wanted me to pay $1,000 for "advice". Practically for his time to tell me what I needed to do in regards to getting my salsa packaged. After about three emails back and forth I walked away. I felt he wanted to take me for my money. 
 
Raul - just some feedback on your post. Copackers are busy. They will copack for you, deal with the state, make your product to spec and with the consistency you need, but they won't hold your hand.  Without knowing who you spoke to (not important) I will play devil's advocate and advise that consulting fees are what they are. And the more you know, the less the copacker has to educate/work with you. I'm not saying they're not trying to rip you off, I'm just saying they probably aren't. 
 
The more you educate yourself about the process, ingredient selection, have your recipes in gram weight for easy scaling, understand costs, minimum batch sizes, sourcing, etc, the better off you will be in working with a copacker. 
 
Some of your post is confusing to me. It's not the FDA that must approve your product, it's the state process authority - you can contact your local health dept and they will happily provide guidance. Bear in mind they're not consultants either and they will not hold your hand. But you can get a call with a lead health inspector and they will answer your questions. Be prepared and use that call to the fullest effect - ask about label requirements, ask about whether you need a nutrition panel for your scale of operation or not (think about how many bottles you'll make/sell) - ask about pH and all that. 
 
The more you know there, the better position you're in all around, regardless of whether you are in a co-pack situation or not. 
 
That was how I started and the county inspectors were most helpful. It's a great place to start, and while the follow up from you will be homework of reading through extremely dry pdf's on the ca.gov website (or wherever they steer you) at least you'll have that guidance.  
 
The copacker is going to charge you for services rendered, whether that's educating/working with you on the process of creating a food product, or actually manufacturing that food product. If you take care of the former without them, they'll be a better value in handling the latter. And from experience I can say that they will be more willing to work with a new start-up if you sound like you know what you're doing. 
 
I would also advise you to consider scale. Copackers are big - they want big customers and they often have big kettles. They will want a big minimum size batch. If you're planning on going "all in" on salsa, copacker might well be best for you. If you're instead going to dip your toes in the water or it's intended as a side business while you work full time, or you want to start small and work your way up, look into renting commercial kitchen space. 
 
There are a couple of options - 1. commercial kitchen, shared space, under the guidance of a certified kitchen manager/licensed canner (for hot pack or shelf-stable product).  2. restaurant space you can rent in the off-hours. 
 
Advantages & disadvantages of both. The former is great because they'll likely have refrigeration space (fresh salsa) or storage space (jarred salsa) for rent to hold your product while it awaits inspection by the county/state inspector. The latter is great because it's likely cheaper and more flexible on when and how many minimum hours you can rent it. But with the latter you will need to become that CKM because there will be no one supervising - that education takes time & some cost. In either case your product may or may not be subject to inspection/sequestration/release process. You'll need to talk to the PA about that. 
 
But that's all wagon ahead of the horse stuff. 1st step is to contact your county health dept and have a conversation - you'll learn more and more targeted "next steps" from that conversation than you would from reading 100 threads on here. Not that the threads aren't great - but why focus on a million details when you're looking for a few first steps? DBA, business license, process. Those should be your priorities. 
 
And as a last bit of advice, stop selling illegal sauce. The fines could be crippling, and you're putting people's health at risk. Cover your ass - do not sell an illegal food product to anyone, even if they're a friend or family or a family friend. You can be shut down permanently in the best case and you can kill someone with botulism in the worst case. Regardless the case, get legal, get insured, and sell not a single drop until then. That is the best advice I can give you at this moment. 
 
good luck in your endeavor! 
:cheers:
 
(I knew if I waited, Lucky Dog would do the honors~:razz:    xoxo SZ!)
 
What Scott said... with the addition of kitchen options- look for any buildings that have kitchens- church, community center, grange hall, civic groups (eagles, masonic lodge, Elks, VFW, etc).  There's several threads in the business forums and even in the hot sauce forums about these things.  
 
And I can't stress enough about not selling sauces until all the ducks are lined up.  It ain't worth the risk. 
 
Good points SL!

Another thing to think about is scale. Now is the best time to think about that as it will drive your decision.

What's your plan once you've made the salsa? Weekend farmer's markets? grocery stores? National brand? Online sales? Some combo?

Where will you store 100s or 1000s of jars of salsa? How will you transport them from kitchen to home? Then where/how will you sell or market it?

All very important things to think about...
 
First of all thank you for giving me the time and great information and believe me, I WILL take your advise on not selling until I'm legit, thank you. As of right now I'm trying to collect my thoughts since my brain is running 1000 mph with ideas, info, and what I want to share. So, slowly I want to start by saying that my idea from the beginning was to go big and get into the supermarkets, Costco etc. at the same time I realize that is not going to be an easy task and it will cost money. A few years ago the light bulb came on with the idea of making salsa and canning it. For a couple of years it was just that, an idea, mainly due to my military obligation which took a lot of my time and the fear of not knowing the canning procedures. It wasn't until I went to culinary school in 2012 that my idea came to light again as one of the students there was canning his own salsa and once I tried it, it gave me a wake up call and got me to start digging on the canning books. Mainly because his salsa was not what I would considered flavorful, which is what I focus on, flavor and not just a Mike Tyson punch of heat on the face where you can't even enjoy it. After a few tries of the Ball recipes I decided to dig more information about canning and the PH levels etc. Once I did that I decided to start making my own salsa recipe based on the FDA/USDA requirements. Not only do I meet their requirements but I exceed them for further safety. i.e. if they required a cup of acid such as vinegar, lemon etc. I added two cups. If I was required to can it for 30 minutes at 212º F in a water bath I would pressure can it as if it was non-acidified food which they require it to be 10 minutes at 240º F I do it at 250º F for 15 minutes and is acidified. I'm not saying I'm a chemist or anything but I feel that this measures are pretty safe. After getting my recipes tweaked a bit for canning I started looking into getting licensed. So first I contacted the city and they send to me to the county because it was food and the kitchen I was required to use had to be commercial. Luckily for me I am a Freemason and have access to a commercial kitchen in my lodge. (as SL mention in her post) so I figured that I may have to get it inspected by the health department and I would be set. Well that wasn't the case, I contacted the county about getting my business license to be able to make/sell salsa but they referred me to the state because it was canning. I then started doing more research for the requirements, i.e. having a certified kitchen, proper canning equipment, lab tests, inspectors etc... this is where I got stuck.I figure if I had the kitchen and proper canning equipment and had a lab test done on the salsa and was approved to make it, I would still need and inspector to inspect every batch I make. unfortunately at this point I'm only making small batches of 20-25 pints at a time  which it made no financial sense to me when I would have to pay the inspector $180/hr. Another option was the co-packer or a share kitchen so I chose to look into co-packing. The one I was able to contacted required a 2400 bottle minimum run so I didn't think that was outrageous but when I talked to the person there I was a bit clueless at the time (a bit more than now haha) so I asked about labels, nutrition analysis, the availability to obtain produce, jars and a quote on 2400-3000 jars. So that's when he told me he would charge me $1000 for advice and getting me ready for production. After that he would quote me on the jars plus additional charges such as getting my recipe translated into production formula, labels etc... Another thing I briefly read about was getting the certified as a canning master (I'm not 100% of the actual name) but I'm not 100% if by getting this certification it would allow you to inspect your own product or not. So far this is where I'm at. I know is a long story but I figure I may be able to get more help if you understand me a bit better. Once again thank you for your time and patience.     
 
You'd become a licensed canner, and where you operate would need to be certified as a cannery.

It does not circumvent the requirement for inspection - it merely allows you to be the manufacturer in a certified commercial kitchen.

2400 jars is a very reasonable minimum order size.

A note about Costco - they have corporate responsibility practices. They won't buy from you if their purchase will be greater than 20% of your annual gross. So at minimum you'll need to be in business for 1+ year in order to sell to them, and since they buy a pallet at a time (~200-250 CS) your annual gross sales will have to be in the $40-60K range for them to bring you in as a Vendor. And they'll want you to have a presence/saturation in a decent amount of retail locations.

Costco can be a terrific option once you get there, but you have to get there.
 
  Reply in italics-
☺Raul☻ said:
 After a few tries of the Ball recipes I decided to dig more information about canning and the PH levels etc. Once I did that I decided to start making my own salsa recipe based on the FDA/USDA requirements. Not only do I meet their requirements but I exceed them for further safety. i.e. if they required a cup of acid such as vinegar, lemon etc. I added two cups. If I was required to can it for 30 minutes at 212º F in a water bath I would pressure can it as if it was non-acidified food which they require it to be 10 minutes at 240º F I do it at 250º F for 15 minutes and is acidified. I'm not saying I'm a chemist or anything but I feel that this measures are pretty safe.
 
(More does not always equal better.  Doubling the vinegar will alter the taste,  Might be a desirable effect, might not be.  Pressure canning will moosh up all the veggies.  Might not be an issue, but then again it might.  Ball and other university extension service recipes are tested and approved as they are published.  Most of the scientist work is done.  You can feel safe using them as they are presented.  )
 
After getting my recipes tweaked a bit for canning I started looking into getting licensed. So first I contacted the city and they send to me to the county because it was food and the kitchen I was required to use had to be commercial. Luckily for me I am a Freemason and have access to a commercial kitchen in my lodge. (as SL mention in her post) so I figured that I may have to get it inspected by the health department and I would be set. Well that wasn't the case, I contacted the county about getting my business license to be able to make/sell salsa but they referred me to the state because it was canning. I then started doing more research for the requirements, i.e. having a certified kitchen, proper canning equipment, lab tests, inspectors etc... this is where I got stuck.I figure if I had the kitchen and proper canning equipment and had a lab test done on the salsa and was approved to make it,
 
(a Process Authority [completely separate from health or FDA inspectors] reviews and tests your recipe, ingredients and cooking process.  They will approve, deny, or dictate changes to all that.  Once your PA says it's OK to make your product as they reviewed it....THEN you can go to the health/state/FDA inspector and say---here's my approved process, here's my kitchen, etc...)
 
 
I would still need and inspector to inspect every batch I make. unfortunately at this point I'm only making small batches of 20-25 pints at a time  which it made no financial sense to me when I would have to pay the inspector $180/hr.
 
(dunno about that, it's a California thing.  in WA, once the product has it's PA approval, there's no further testing per batch.)
 
 
Another option was the co-packer or a share kitchen so I chose to look into co-packing. The one I was able to contacted required a 2400 bottle minimum run so I didn't think that was outrageous but when I talked to the person there I was a bit clueless at the time (a bit more than now haha) so I asked about labels, nutrition analysis, the availability to obtain produce, jars and a quote on 2400-3000 jars. So that's when he told me he would charge me $1000 for advice and getting me ready for production. After that he would quote me on the jars plus additional charges such as getting my recipe translated into production formula, labels etc...
Another thing I briefly read about was getting the certified as a canning master (I'm not 100% of the actual name) but I'm not 100% if by getting this certification it would allow you to inspect your own product or not.
 
(it's called Better Process Control School certified.  Costs about $500 and a week out of your life.  Once certified, the person can work in any processing facility overseeing all types of processing including pressure canning.  I'm BPCS certified, but don't have any products that require pressure canning.  I'm pretty sure that if you have a good quality pressure canner and it is inspected/tested once a year, you can process/pressure can in the Masonic lodge after getting state permitted.  That won't address the issue of having every batch inspected.  Dunno what to tell you about that except consider moving to another state...
 
And just for the record, you do not need FDA inspection/registration if the business is only selling inside their home state.  Once sales cross state lines via internet or delivery, then the food processor needs to be FDA registered.  some other factors such as using a canning process or if the product contains some high risk ingredients like meat or dairy may dictate that the processor be FDA registered anyway, regardless of sales area.  Nutritional labeling is NOT REQUIRED by FDA as long as the business has an Nutr.Labeling Exemption on file with the FDA. 
 
Good Luck!  It's a process but not insurmountable.  The one big piece of advice I could give you [and many other sauce makers say the same thing]...don't believe your family and friends when they say it's good.  They may be right and the salsa may be out of this world.  Or they may be just being nice not wanting to hurt your feelings.  Take the sauce to parties, picnics, community dinners and sneak it out onto the table then hang around and listen.  [That's Lucky Dog's trick ;) ].  When you can afford it, make some sample packs and give them away.  Since you're canning, do some up in 4 oz or 8 oz jars.  Put a post on here offering free samples in exchange for reviews and critique of your sauce.  People around here are foodies and will give you excellent feedback.  They'll comment on things like the chunks of veggies are too big and hard to get all on a chip.  Things like that that you won't likely get from friends and family.  With the added benefit of anonymity so they are more likely to be completely honest.) 
 
(More does not always equal better.  Doubling the vinegar will alter the taste,  Might be a desirable effect, might not be.  Pressure canning will moosh up all the veggies.  Might not be an issue, but then again it might.  Ball and other university extension service recipes are tested and approved as they are published.  Most of the scientist work is done.  You can feel safe using them as they are presented.  )
SL, I agree with you, at first I did not want to add any acid to my food but as I learned about canning and with the home equipment that I have I felt like there wasn't much choice so I tweaked my recipe with the added acid. In regards to using Ball's recipes I just felt like that was not my recipe and I would like to create my own flavors so that's why I decided to do my own. Also you are right about the pressure canning mushing up your product. I learned the hard way while making pickled garlic. Fortunately one of my salsas is practically all blended so if anything it just seems to get a bit caramelized which I thing is good. =). 
 
(a Process Authority [completely separate from health or FDA inspectors] reviews and tests your recipe, ingredients and cooking process.  They will approve, deny, or dictate changes to all that.  Once your PA says it's OK to make your product as they reviewed it....THEN you can go to the health/state/FDA inspector and say---here's my approved process, here's my kitchen, etc...)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm understanding I should submit a sample of my salsa to the PA then work on the kitchen/equipment issue?  (Oh man I feel so ignorant right now)...
 
(it's called Better Process Control School certified.  Costs about $500 and a week out of your life.  Once certified, the person can work in any processing facility overseeing all types of processing including pressure canning.  I'm BPCS certified, but don't have any products that require pressure canning.  I'm pretty sure that if you have a good quality pressure canner and it is inspected/tested once a year, you can process/pressure can in the Masonic lodge after getting state permitted.  That won't address the issue of having every batch inspected.  Dunno what to tell you about that except consider moving to another state...
As of right now i'm doing research on the BPCS  certification here in California and it seems that is offered online by reputable schools. I hope this would helps, one thing I do have is a Food Manager Certification which I obtain last year. Now in regards to the inspector...hmmm I still have to dig much further. 
 
Good Luck!  It's a process but not insurmountable.  The one big piece of advice I could give you [and many other sauce makers say the same thing]...don't believe your family and friends when they say it's good.  They may be right and the salsa may be out of this world.  Or they may be just being nice not wanting to hurt your feelings.  Take the sauce to parties, picnics, community dinners and sneak it out onto the table then hang around and listen.  [That's Lucky Dog's trick ;) ].  When you can afford it, make some sample packs and give them away.  Since you're canning, do some up in 4 oz or 8 oz jars.  Put a post on here offering free samples in exchange for reviews and critique of your sauce.  People around here are foodies and will give you excellent feedback.  They'll comment on things like the chunks of veggies are too big and hard to get all on a chip.  Things like that that you won't likely get from friends and family.  With the added benefit of anonymity so they are more likely to be completely honest.) 
Thank you for wishing me luck. I agree with you in sense about staying away from family and friends. Although most of the people that tried my salsa are acquaintances/friends some are sailors and believe me they would not waste an opportunity to rip your guts out, so their reviews are (i think) pretty precised. I also love your idea of submitting samples on here and in return receive a review and will do so as soon as I make 4oz jars and shipped them out to a certain # of members who request them. With that said I have done a similar thing, I made several cases and passed them out at the Starbucks I go to almost on a daily basis. I also passed out samples to chefs while I was in culinary school. I felt what better way to get a "professional" review than to passed them out to culinary "experts". And since we are on the topic of sampling, if you and Lucky Dog allow me I would like to provide both of you with a 16 oz jar of my Garlic Salsa. Sorry everyone else, you would have to wait for the 4 oz jars  once they are ready.  :P  
Once again thank you. Believe me, I'm extremely appreciative with you guys who take the time to read and reply to peoples post. It must take a whole lot of patience to repeat things over and over but without people like you a lot of us would be in an extreme dark. 
 
☺Raul☻ said:
I then started doing more research for the requirements, i.e. having a certified kitchen, proper canning equipment, lab tests, inspectors etc... this is where I got stuck.I figure if I had the kitchen and proper canning equipment and had a lab test done on the salsa and was approved to make it, I would still need and inspector to inspect every batch I make. unfortunately at this point I'm only making small batches of 20-25 pints at a time  which it made no financial sense to me when I would have to pay the inspector $180/hr.
 
That doesn't sound right to me.  I believe the process authority will conduct an initial inspection and may ask for occassional inspections, but not every time.  The inspector I spoke w/ mentioned a one-time inspection and nothing of cost, but that is Missouri.  
 
☺Raul☻ said:
Another option was the co-packer or a share kitchen so I chose to look into co-packing. The one I was able to contacted required a 2400 bottle minimum run so I didn't think that was outrageous but when I talked to the person there I was a bit clueless at the time (a bit more than now haha) so I asked about labels, nutrition analysis, the availability to obtain produce, jars and a quote on 2400-3000 jars. So that's when he told me he would charge me $1000 for advice and getting me ready for production. After that he would quote me on the jars plus additional charges such as getting my recipe translated into production formula, labels etc...  
 
I had similar experiences w/ co-packers.  One local co-packer turned me down because I didn't have a sales record.  Many wanted between $500-$1,000 per recipe to run a test batch and would not provide a cost estimate until the test batch was complete.  One wanted $100/recipe to convert it from weight and liquid measurements to all weight measurements.  One said they would give an quote but never did.  They eventually punted and said they were busy but if I still needed a co-packer in 2014 to call them back.  Some charged a lump sum to run a test batch and some asked for an initial down payment of $1,000 and they would deduct materials and labor ant $75-100/hr.  One co-packer wanted $5K/recipe to run a test batch but the test batch was a full run.  One was a 10-gallon run but most were 2-4 gallons. 
 
The point is they are all over the place.  You have it easier than if it were hot sauce because it will be easier to get rid of 2,500 bottles of salsa than 7,500 bottles of hot sauce for the same batch size.  Keep looking and you will find one that is reasonable for a startup.  When you find one, see if they provide references.  If they advertise the products they make, you can contact one of those companies directly and ask if they are pleased.  Just keep researching.  There are only a few that act like they want to be found or want to work w/ startups.  There are a ton in FL and CA and TX.  Not sure where you are located.
 
Ken
 
Thank you Ken. Unfortunately here in California every batch has to be inspected. One thing I wasn't sure about and after reading the same document several times it seems as I can make as many batches as I want and canned them, then hold them for the inspector to check a sample (ie a jar) from each batch. I was under the impression that it had to be checked/inspected before I canned it. This makes a ton of difference is that's the case. Maybe someone else can decode the information better than I can.
Once you are licensed and have taken the above steps, you are required to notify FDB before you begin manufacturing the product that requires the FDB release for shipment. An FDB investigator will arrange to inspect your facility and audit your records, conduct pH determinations on samples pulled from each batch produced, and release product that meets the requirements of the letter. 
 You are required to notify FDB inspector whenever you need a release of product, whenever any spoilage is noted, or if any foodborne illness has been reported. 
 No batches of products required to be produced under the Cannery Inspection Program can be sold or donated until they have been officially released by FDB. Violations of the law are subject to fines or imprisonment. 
 Please note that the hourly inspection fees include charges for inspection and travel time for your facility, in addition to laboratory costs. These fees are accrued on a monthly basis and are billed at the end of each month. Costs associated with CDPH and laboratory services currently range from $180 - $240 per hour. 
 
By the way, thank you LDHS, I just contacted Uptown kitchen and will be calling later to determine a day to visit the kitchen etc.. My idea is to make a small batch to submit to the lab and move forward from there.  
 
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