fertilizer Let's talk fertilizers

[SciurusDoomus]

If anyone's seen my thread recently, my Bhut Jolokia's gone through (and is still going through) a really rough patch.
 
I want to get at least one harvest out of it before it goes, but after it's gone it's time to start anew. I'm a container grower for the most part as I don't own any land (yet!) to plant in, and all my problems with peppers so far have been because of fertilizers. Container growing is a weird mix of hydro and in-the-ground growing and it's been tough for me to find a fertilizer regimen that gives enough of the right nutes without overdosing my plants.
 
So does anyone have a container gardening fertilizer regimen?
 
1.) What do you use for micro/macronutrients?
2.) How often should fertilizer be applied and in what concentrations?
3.) Foliar or root feeding? What's the difference besides doing foliar more often?
4.) What about soil pH and beneficial fungi?
 
Lastly, bottom watering is a necessity for someone who grows in containers. How should it be done? I've tried a bunch of things and never had any luck.
 
I've been doing this for a year but it seems I have much, much more to learn.

 

[Jamison]

Pretty broad range of questions but what I do is:

Start with good soil, I use fox farm Ocean Forest.

I don't bottom water ever.

I use Fox Farm Kangaroots, Big Bloom, and Microbe Brew for nutrients, and also add CalMag from General Organics. I use them maybe once every three to four weeks.

Foliar feeding is def optional. I do it while plants are seedlings and after that only when I feel like it or think about it.

Beneficial fungi is awesome. I add Extreme Gardening Mykos and Dr. Earth slow release vegetable fertz, to the soil before planting and then usually add a little handful at the bottom of the hole while transplanting.

Water free of chlorine is a must. Chlorine and chemicals will destroy your soil food web.

My $0.02

 

[thegreenman]

If you are growing in containers with sterile manufactured soils such as commercial peat or coir mixes and have no soil food web to nurture or maintain, you can just use one complete balanced fertilizer and be done. It's helpful to know what chemicals your water has in it, and the ph. Ours here has loads of calcium and a ph over 7 so That tells you that acidifying fertilizers are needed here, but calmag is not, and we rarely if ever get BER. 
 
Ask your local farm or agriculture extension agent. That is their job. Your state university has doubtless spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars in research into what fertilizers are best in your area, and offer this information to the public for free. 
 
That said, I use ONLY one fertilizer on all my container grown peppers, and on most of my tropical flowering plants as well such as orchids and bromeliads. No soil amendments, no liquids, no foliars. I'm now growing in a Coir based mix and I'm really happy with the results, If you have a short season, You may need to do more to get to harvest sooner, so you may need to really push the nutrients. 
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:1752]

 

[Sarge]

A friend of mine who grows chillis near me has been doing so for some years and all his plants are in pots. He uses a custom blended potting mix made by his local nursery, which I will be checking out. His plants thrive. Ive seen his plants and his harvests and its impressive. I asked him what nutes he uses and he said he doesn't add anything specific but does feed them with fish emulsion and a miracle all purpose food. He has potash which he adds to the soil when he needs to and also scatters dynamic lifter on the surface. He also has other supplements to aid with deficiencies but only for cal/mag and iron def.
 
I personally feed my plants now on every other watering with powerfeed, seasol or chilli focus. My plants in the dirt have got composted manure, blood bone and slow release tomato food. This is my first year so it is still a huge learning experience for me and I am making my share of mistakes.
 
The water in my area is close to 7 or high 6 in PH. When testing my soil it can range from 5.5 - 6.8. I am not going to fiddle with the PH of the soil.
 
I foilar feed once a month if the plants look sluggish. I dont know if it helps but I do it anyway, with seasol.
 
Bottom watering isn't necessary but if you've got fungus gnats in your area, its can help greatly. I now bottom water all my plants and my approach is filling a bucket larger than my pots with water and then floating my pots in it and pushing them down. I know the weight of my pots, and their capacity so when I see X amount of water gone from the bucket and the pot weights x amount in kg, I pull it out and let the excess water drip out. This is also how I feed my plants. Liquid nutes in the water and dunk them. Its worked great for my seedlings which are now in the dirt.
 
I think the WORST problem is babying the plants. When you are so attentive to the plants you notice every single minute change and you think something is wrong, it needs this, too much that, not enough this. My plants in the dirt now get significantly less attention from me, my dad waters them. I checked them today and they're really taking off.
 
My worst fear isn't with nutes, I try not to add anything to potting mixes which are rich in nutes I just use my seasol and powerfeed, my worst fear is with pests. White flies everywhere outside, aphids everywhere, fungus gnats everywhere. Should be interesting!
 
I saw your plant in the other thread, have you considered repotting it with fresh potting mix and not giving it any food or do you believe it will stress the plant too far?
 
The plant does seem stressed so I would be interested in trying to get it stable before you force it to push pods out or the pods could lack heat, shape, size, quality, quantity and could be bitter.

 

[SciurusDoomus]

Thanks for all the responses. I've never used much in the way of chemical nutes for non-hydro, but now I'm considering it.
 
 

I saw your plant in the other thread, have you considered repotting it with fresh potting mix and not giving it any food or do you believe it will stress the plant too far?
 
The plant does seem stressed so I would be interested in trying to get it stable before you force it to push pods out or the pods could lack heat, shape, size, quality, quantity and could be bitter.

 
I'm in college and I only really have that one pot. Can't repot it as I don't have any more soil. I figure I'm going to push this plant to flower and fruit the best it can, harvest it, and start over by flushing the soil.

 

[Sneaky6]

Pretty broad range of questions but what I do is:

Start with good soil, I use fox farm Ocean Forest.

I don't bottom water ever.

I use Fox Farm Kangaroots, Big Bloom, and Microbe Brew for nutrients, and also add CalMag from General Organics. I use them maybe once every three to four weeks.

Foliar feeding is def optional. I do it while plants are seedlings and after that only when I feel like it or think about it.

Beneficial fungi is awesome. I add Extreme Gardening Mykos and Dr. Earth slow release vegetable fertz, to the soil before planting and then usually add a little handful at the bottom of the hole while transplanting.

Water free of chlorine is a must. Chlorine and chemicals will destroy your soil food web.

My $0.02

 
I use a very similar cocktail as Jamison.
 
My grow is containers indoors in an apartment patio closet. 
 
I run Fox Farms Ocean Forest for soil in root pots (75 cents for a 2 gal perfect for your college budget) https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/root-pouch-black-fabric-pot-15-20-month
 
Fert feeding every 2 weeks and I alternate between Neptunes Harvest Seaweed 2-3-1 (Kelp/fish) and Foxfarms Grow Big 6-4-4. Once flowering starts I cut the grow big and run only Neptunes Harvest. It is very important that once you start getting flowers to increase the P in your fert. I also like to reduce my N because of my limited grow space. 
 
When transplanting I sprinkle a 3/4 dose of plant success Granular to help with the roots. Then again every few months by putting some in 4" holes around the plant canopy. 
 
I will foliar feed Epsomsalt about once a month or substitute with cal mag on my older plants (soils for cal mag)
 
The biggest advice I can give being a newer grower myself is do not over do it. This includes watering, ferts, attention. Peppers like it simple and somewhat tough. Over watering WILL happen to you as peppers seem to like to be thirsty a bit. Also when you try a new fert ALWAYS lower the strength by at least half but possibly as low as 1/4 or 1/3 strength.
 
Keep on eye on the PH and PPM of your water. Chlorine and all the other stuff in many local water sources is not good for your plants.Purchase a simple filter if need be.
 
Good luck dude!

 

[SciurusDoomus]

The water at my university and at home is actually really nice. Very low TDS counts and pH slightly acidic. Great for plants.
 
Thanks for your input. My plan is to use Grow Big/Big Bloom from Fox Farms, CalMag+, and molasses because I've had great success with molasses. Obviously I won't be using all of them all the time, but I think that together they cover everything I might need.

 

[SL3]

If you are growing in containers with sterile manufactured soils such as commercial peat or coir mixes and have no soil food web to nurture or maintain, you can just use one complete balanced fertilizer and be done. It's helpful to know what chemicals your water has in it, and the ph. Ours here has loads of calcium and a ph over 7 so That tells you that acidifying fertilizers are needed here, but calmag is not, and we rarely if ever get BER. 
 
Ask your local farm or agriculture extension agent. That is their job. Your state university has doubtless spent many hundreds of thousands of dollars in research into what fertilizers are best in your area, and offer this information to the public for free. 
 
That said, I use ONLY one fertilizer on all my container grown peppers, and on most of my tropical flowering plants as well such as orchids and bromeliads. No soil amendments, no liquids, no foliars. I'm now growing in a Coir based mix and I'm really happy with the results, If you have a short season, You may need to do more to get to harvest sooner, so you may need to really push the nutrients. 

Did not see the 15-6-11 on Nurserymen's website. I did see a couple of others that looked interesting.

 

[SciurusDoomus]

Same here. I'm also curious as to how you can get away with a low P count relative to N and K.

 

[thegreenman]

Did not see the 15-6-11 on Nurserymen's website. I did see a couple of others that looked interesting.
 

That mix is a custom blend, not sold retail through Nurserysmans.
 
Look up a www.Harrells.com They produce/sell the fertilizer nationwide. They have a mix that looks identical. 
 
15-6-11 + Micros 10-12 Mo., 50 Lb Bags 200421 MSDS LABEL MORE…

10-12 month homogenous NPK and minors Polyon fert. Polyon® Controlled-Release Fertilizers, with their trademarked GREEN color, give a professional all the things you want from a fertility program: consistent, predictable feeding that lasts for months with one application.

Same here. I'm also curious as to how you can get away with a low P count relative to N and K.

 
take a look at this below:http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/botanicalsciences/PlantHormones/EssentialPlant/EssentialPlant.htm
Table 1. Essential plant nutrients: their relative amounts in plants, functions and classification
 
Name Chemical symbol Relative % in plant* Function in plant Nutrient category
Primary Macronutrients
Nitrogen      N                   100                     Proteins, amino acids 
Phosphorus P                      6                     Nucleic acids, ATP
Potassium   K                    25                     Catalyst, ion transport
Calcium      Ca                  12.5                    Cell wall component
Secondary macronutrients
Magnesium  Mg                    8                     Part of chlorophyll
Sulfur            S                     3                     Amino acids
Iron            Fe                     0.2                    Chlorophyll synthesis
Micronutrients
Copper Cu 0.01 Component of enzymes
Manganese Mn 0.1 Activates enzymes
Zinc Zn 0.03 Activates enzymes
Boron B 0.2 Cell wall component
Molybdenum Mo 0.0001 Involved in N fixation
Chlorine Cl 0.3 Photosynthesis reactions
 
*Relative amounts of mineral elements compared to nitrogen in dry shoot tissue. May vary depending on plant species.
Table 2. Generalized Symptoms of Plant Nutrient Deficiency or Excess
 
Plant Nutrient Type Visual symptoms Nitrogen Deficiency Light green to yellow appearance of leaves, especially older leaves; stunted growth; poor fruit development. Excess Dark green foliage which may be susceptible to lodging, drought, disease and insect invasion. Fruit and seed crops may fail to yield. Phosphorus Deficiency Leaves may develop purple coloration; stunted plant growth and delay in plant development. Excess Excess phosphorus may cause micronutrient deficiencies, especially iron or zinc. Potassium Deficiency Older leaves turn yellow initially around margins and die; irregular fruit development. Excess Excess potassium may cause deficiencies in magnesium and possibly calcium. Calcium Deficiency Reduced growth or death of growing tips; blossom-end rot of tomato; poor fruit development and appearance. Excess Excess calcium may cause deficiency in either magnesium or potassium Magnesium Deficiency Initial yellowing of older leaves between leaf veins spreading to younger leaves; poor fruit development and production. Excess High concentration tolerated in plant; however, imbalance with calcium and potassium may reduce growth. Sulfur Deficiency Initial yellowing of young leaves spreading to whole plant; similar symptoms to nitrogen deficiency but occurs on new growth. Excess Excess of sulfur may cause premature dropping of leaves. Iron Deficiency Initial distinct yellow or white areas between veins of young leaves leading to spots of dead leaf tissue. Excess Possible bronzing of leaves with tiny brown spots. Manganese Deficiency Interveinal yellowing or mottling of young leaves. Excess Older leaves have brown spots surrounded by a chlorotic circle or zone. Zinc Deficiency Interveinal yellowing on young leaves; reduced leaf size. Excess Excess zinc may cause iron deficiency in some plants. Boron Deficiency Death of growing points and deformation of leaves with areas of discoloration. Excess Leaf tips become yellow followed by necrosis. Leaves get a scorched appearance and later fall off.
 
1. Adapted from: W.F. Bennett (editor), 1993. Nutrient Deficiencies & Toxicities in Crop Plants, APS Press, St. Paul, Minnesota.

Information provided by: http://www.uog.edu​

 

[SciurusDoomus]

Huh that first table is really interesting. Definitely saving that article. Thanks.

 

[Jamison]

Yes molasses, I forgot, I use that as well. Feed your microbes!

 

[SciurusDoomus]

Yes molasses, I forgot, I use that as well. Feed your microbes!

And it's an awesome way to chelate iron, supplement a little extra Mg and Ca as well as give your benes and plants some sugar.

 

[coheed196]

I grow 90% of my peppers in containers. I have never once bottom watered a container. I have never once tested the pH in my soil or tap water. I use a mixture of stuff from Lowe's as a medium (peat moss, mushroom or cow compost, perlite, and hell I've thrown miracle grow in there if I needed to add something to make more volume) as for Foliar feeding, I never do it, even as seedlings. "feeding regimen" what the hell is that? Lol. I use whatever I have laying around whenever I remember or feel like doing it (btw I had 60 plants in containers this year, well actually I still have them) I've used botanicare pure blend pro grow, pro soil, and cal-mag +, I've used miracle grow tomato food, but the last half of this year I've been using the 20-20-20 blend from kelp4less.com and have had great results. I don't go out of my way to add microbes. I did buy some espoma from Lowe's that had myco in it, and Dr earth as well. I really don't baby my plants at all and all of them ended up being well over 4-5ft tall. Caring for them is not rocket science by any means. You can neglect thecrap out of them and still get more pods than you would ever use.

Just wanted to show everyone that you can grow big productive plants without going all crazy about them.

 

[SL3]

"Feeding regimen" what the hell is that?
 
I've thrown “miracle grow”
I've used “botanicare”
“pure blend pro grow”
“ pro soil”
“ cal-mag +”
“miracle grow tomato food”
“20-20-20 blend from kelp4less.com”
“espoma from Lowe's that had myco in it”
“Dr earth as well”
 
I really don't baby my plants at all.
 
Uh what’s that? Could it be a sun room or a green house that the first plant is in.  Nope, I don’t see any babying going on there.
 
Just kidding my friend, your plants look awesome no matter what you are doing; but I’m going to have to start getting a lot tougher on plants after seeing this.

 

[coheed196]

Actually it's not a sunroom or greenhouse thanks. It's a completely uncovered back porch. 100% exposed to the elements, hell it doesn't even have an insect screen around it

 

[SL3]

Actually it's not a sunroom or greenhouse thanks. It's a completely uncovered back porch. 100% exposed to the elements, hell it doesn't even have an insect screen around it

Ok my bad, so let me rephrase that. What ever your "not" doing is working, because those plants look as good if not better than any green house grown plants I have ever seen. 

 

[coheed196]

Lol thanks. Yea I really don't do anything fancy for them. Hell the plants I did have in the ground were basically just dug a hole and I put a handful of worm castings in there and filled it back up. Granted they didn't get huge, but they produced a good bit.

 

[HillBilly Jeff]

I feed 6-24-24 at the beginning when I plant out and then mid summer I hit them again.  I do amend the crap out of the gardens each year.  I believe this year I will put a little more focus on feeding to see if it makes a difference.  If I would have had the supports in place, my rainforest would have been over my head this year.
 
I am putting my MoA in a new segregated location next season and the soil will be babied there.  It is virgin ground and I need to see what happens when I really put the extra care into them.
 
Probably means I will get a hail storm and wipe it all out lol.
 
Water I just use well water from the tap.  I don't test my soil but I do add lime every now and again, wood ashes from the wood stove I have saved all winter, and epsom salts.