chinense Moruga Scorpion - Landrace or not?

AJ Drew

AJ Drew

Trying to get a grasp on the term "landrace".  Going to use Moruga Scorpion as an example.  It was created by a farmer named Wahid Ogeer of Trinidad.  I do not know how he created it.  Could have been cross pollinating.  Could have been selective seed saving.  I do not think that matters much.  What does seem to matter is that CARDI says it does not exist.  Why does that seem to matter?  Because it seems like the term landrace applies to things which are fairly obscure.

Wikipedia says a landrace can not be developed by commercial seed companies nor plant breeders.  However, a landrace can be a cultigen.  A cultigen is a plant that was developed intentionally by man.  Not a wild.  So it seems like the Moruga Scorpion could be considered a landrace.

Now I know that will sound ridiculous to a few folk because Mr. Ogeer is a contemporary figure.  But that brings us to the next question.  I can find absolutely nothing in the definition of a landrace that denotes how long the thing has existed.
 
There is also mention of landraces evolving into a 'farmers variety', but not all that sure where that line is either.  Could it be that what we are really talking about is how wide spread a plant is?

Landrace - Fairly local and obscure
Farmers Variety - Less obscure, grown for small industry.
Cultivar - Widely recognized

Help me get a grip on the terms.  What would you classify the Moruga Scorpion as?
 
 
More on Wahid Ogeer - Seems like a very interesting character.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2016-02-13/cut-out-middleman-help-people-earn
 
If there's a memory of the creation, its not a landrace.
 
The hallmarks of landraces are
  • locally adapted
  • traditionally grown (sometimes this means cultural importance)
  • not systematically bred or developed
There's a good section on landraces in Principals of Plant Breeding. Its obviously copywrited so I won't reproduce it here, but I'll link to the Google books of the section, and just scroll down to page 29 to start reading
 
https://books.google.com/books?id=74hdQoEc8XsC&pg=PA24&lr=&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
 
Hmmmm, so lets consider Farmer's Jalapeno.  As I understand it, someone found it for sale at a Farmers Market but nobody really knows how it came to be.  Seems like most folk would not consider it a landrace because it seems to be from the US.  Seems like people only use the term landrace to describe something from a far off land.
 
I'm by no means an expert. But as I understand it, a cultivar has a more rigorous and methodical process for breeding successive generations to the point where you'll get the same characteristics every time you grow that seed. But you need to carefully control future generations from cross-breeding.

A landrace is developed more informally where local or regional farmers and growers will select future generations based on a subset of desired characteristics. But, typically, there will be variation. It's not necessary to carefully isolate a landrace. You simply throw away those that have whatever you decide is undesirable characteristics.
 
Ultimately we need to give credit to where it belongs, Mother Earth. we can toy with genetics, but mom has the keys to the SUV.
 
My understanding is that the term "landrace" is applied to native species of plant that is still in its wild unadulterated form. Such as ruderalis, which is considered a landrace variety of marijuana. The previous posts have me reading for the night!
 
OoNickoC said:
My understanding is that the term "landrace" is applied to native species of plant that is still in its wild unadulterated form. Such as ruderalis, which is considered a landrace variety of marijuana. The previous posts have me reading for the night!
Click to expand...
 
The definitions I am finding all say the DNA was manipulated to be considered a land race.  That wilds are not landraces.  Even cross pollination fits the definition according to some sources.
 
 
AJ Drew said:
 
The definitions I am finding all say the DNA was manipulated to be considered a land race.  That wilds are not landraces.  Even cross pollination fits the definition according to some sources.
 
Click to expand...
 

I just read the same, apparently Ive been misusing the term in my head for a long time now. Admittedly my ASSumptions were from seeds sites overseas and well...assumptions! This thread has lead to some darn good reading, kudos again to you sir!
 
OoNickoC said:
 
I just read the same, apparently Ive been misusing the term in my head for a long time now. Admittedly my ASSumptions were from seeds sites overseas and well...assumptions! This thread has lead to some darn good reading, kudos again to you sir!
Click to expand...
 
Gotta point out the thread got here by me admitting ignorance.  Now I think I have a better handle on it thanks to THP members.  I would so very much love a degree in horticulture.  Cant afford one, so come to THP often.  Have learned so much from its members.
 
When I think of land race, I think heirloom. Like the first coconuts, before it crossed with a lime type of thing.
 
Voodoo 6 said:
When I think of land race, I think heirloom. Like the first coconuts, before it crossed with a lime type of thing.
Click to expand...
 

So where does that leave us with things like the Mortgage Lifter Tomato?  In one of the definitions I read for landrace, if a major seed developer is selling it then it is not a land race.  Same for heirloom.  Thing is, the Mortgage Lifter was once available only via trade from other heirloom seed savers.  Now it is in Walmart every year. 

Next McDonalds will be selling meatloaf and other things you are supposed to make at home.
 
By the way I don't know if it is a landrace or not.
I remember Claudio Dal Zovo, president of Italian Pepperfriends Association, telling that the original seeds he received from Christopher Phillips were labeled "Morouga Blend: Scorpion x 7 Pot" or something like that.
I think there's a discussion even here on THP, it started a couple of years ago.
Cmpman1974 surely can tell you more.
 
Voodoo 6 said:
you gotta remember aj we are old school. they will try to package and sell the sky if they can.
Click to expand...
 
Now that brings up a cool topic.  Is there anything old school about super hots?  Seems like when it comes to the old school heirloom / seed saver crowd, the ghost pepper is still the hottest pepper in the world.  Super hot peppers seem to be there own fairly recent thing.  My explain all the conversations about instability.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top