Mulching leaves

Helvete

Helvete

I've composted plenty of leaves in years past, in fact I'm composting quite a bit of them right now.  They're great as what we call a "claybreaker" when you work them into this godawful red clay we call soil here in the Blue Ridge. 
 
I've never mulched/shredded them though.
Tomorrow I'm going to hook up our PTO wood chipper to the tractor and shred up several piles of leaves directly into some of our less established garden plots and disc them in.  I have approx. 11 million trees on the property, most of them deciduous so I'm in no short supply this time of year.  Is anyone else familiar with actually mulching leaves like this?  What are the pros/cons?  I'm just gonna go ahead and do it for the hell of it but I just want to see if anyone else does this.
 
i shred hardwood leaves every year too. shredding them def speeds up the composting time. my one concern for your method of turning them directly into the garden would be that your soil might go into nute lock-up. i have always and would suggest composting the leaves prior to tilling them into the soil. hardwood leaves take a long time to break down, i compost mine for 1 year.
 
Makes sense, perhaps I should at least wait until spring to disc them in, or at least make a big pile of shredded litter where I can easily disperse it come spring.  I was also thinking that just unloading a bunch of pre-composted forest humus from the back woods into the plots would work as well.  It typically has moss in it as well which will help tremendously as far as aeration and breaking up the clay.  I put leaves in my raised beds and hoe it in before plant-out and have never had any problems but I'd be concerned with it matting up without working it in at a later time.
 
     One method that I have good luck with is shredding them with a lawnmower and piling them about 8-12" deep on untilled land (lawn or unbroken field) or about 4" deep in a garden bed. After I spread them, I'll add some organic fertilizer like Tomato-Tone (use less if you're mulching lawn or field) and let it sit all winter. In spring either fork it in, or use it as a mulch and plant through it.
     It does wonders for loosening and aerating the soil and preventing compaction and erosion. Plus worms LOVE it. When I dig my beds in spring, I have a hard time finding any soil particles that haven't been through a worm's gut! 
 
Wouldn't doing that rob the nitrogen from your soil? Everyone says uncomposted materials steal your soils nitrogen. Especially the leaves since they're a carbon
 
Devil Created Pods said:
Wouldn't doing that rob the nitrogen from your soil? Everyone says uncomposted materials steal your soils nitrogen. Especially the leaves since they're a carbon     
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     Nope. The Tomato Tone contains N which will slowly release all fall, winter and spring. This will be immobilized by the microbes decaying the leaves. Then earthworms which live in the underlying soil work their way up into the leaf mulch to eat all that nutritious microbe-dressed rotting leaf salad. In doing so, they create tunnels through the soil and deposit (poop) all the nutrients and organic matter originally supplied by the leaves and fertilizer. 
     Even if the leaves were used as a simple leaf mold mulch, the fungi that decay them would probably only rob N from the immediate interface area between the soil and mulch. Any garden plant's roots would have a pretty easy time acquiring N from slightly deeper layers.
     If you were to till or fork in uncomposted leaves with no additional N source, that would be a different story. Some N would be temporarily immobilized - depending on how much Carbon was added in the form of leaves.
 
dash 2 said:
 
     Nope. The Tomato Tone contains N which will slowly release all fall, winter and spring. This will be immobilized by the microbes decaying the leaves. Then earthworms which live in the underlying soil work their way up into the leaf mulch to eat all that nutritious microbe-dressed rotting leaf salad. In doing so, they create tunnels through the soil and deposit (poop) all the nutrients and organic matter originally supplied by the leaves and fertilizer. 
     Even if the leaves were used as a simple leaf mold mulch, the fungi that decay them would probably only rob N from the immediate interface area between the soil and mulch. Any garden plant's roots would have a pretty easy time acquiring N from slightly deeper layers.
     If you were to till or fork in uncomposted leaves with no additional N source, that would be a different story. Some N would be temporarily immobilized - depending on how much Carbon was added in the form of leaves.
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Awesome answer! cool :)
 
We're not really talking about bark or wood mulch either, which contains high amounts of lignin.  Lignin is good for feeding soil in an established bed because it regulates the release of nitrogen from the organic material but using it in a rarely used garden plot could lead to soil lockout.  Hardwood leaves contain more lignin than say, pine needles, but the rate of decomposition of leaves in general is fast because it has significantly less lignin than heartwood or bark.  Natural sawdusts, shredded paper, and charcoal dust are good alternatives to mulch if you're trying to establish a bed in a shorter timeframe because they're already mechanically broken down and they make great worm food when they start decaying.  There's also the use of clover or other unobtrusive legumes to help affix nitrogen in the soil.
 
Shredded leaves and Biosol are a staple in our Fall prep for Spring.  This year the ground froze way too early to till in, so the bags of leaves will be left on the garden until Spring.  This gives the leaves a bit of time to compost in the bag, though I'd rather have them tilled in.
 
Leaves should be raked up and not left on the grass, shredded or not- just heard that on the news.
 
OK -I'll edit this last statement.  The leaves on my lawn were raked up, shredded, bagged, and left on the garden for the next 6 months to compost until I can use them in the garden.  Then I can add the composed llama poo to the leaves and till them in.  I also save back bags of leaves to use as mulch in the vegetable garden throughout the growing season.  We're very dry here, so the mulch helps with water retention, and the leaves are usually gone by the end of the summer.
 
catherinew said:
Shredded leaves and Biosol are a staple in our Fall prep for Spring.  This year the ground froze way too early to till in, so the bags of leaves will be left on the garden until Spring.  This gives the leaves a bit of time to compost in the bag, though I'd rather have them tilled in.
 
Leaves should be raked up and not left on the grass, shredded or not- just heard that on the news.
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good to know you've had success tilling them in :)
 
Honestly I wouldn't rake up leaves completely if at all if it was something I even did, they leave habitats for predator insects that overwinter in the leaf litter.  Much better to compost them somewhere or at least push off paths through them.  I think most problems people think they might have with leaves on their grass can be offset by annihilating them with a lawnmower blade
 
catherinew said:
Leaves should be raked up and not left on the grass, shredded or not- just heard that on the news.
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I don't know the source, but shredded leaves in the lawn is not a bad thing at all. They actually are good for the soil and organisms that live there. A Google search will provide a great deal of information on adding organic material to your lawn, leaves being an excellent free source of organic matter.
 
Don't only use leafs, but mix in some more sturdy material like thin twigs (add before composting) or Rice hulls (add when working it in the ground)as well. Flat leafs are easily compressed by heavy clay. The biggest issues with clay are drainage and root aeration. I'm not sure if you are willing to add non-biodegradable soil improvers like perlite? This might help a lot with clay.

I would also highly recommend composting with a compost starter and some calmag over winter. Adding a starter culture of worms in your lot, after all the stuff is plowed under will also work great. You can get a bucket full of worms with a half days work (Just stick a shovel in the ground and tap it, worms will come to the surface). Put that on the lot, it will loosen the soil a lot and they make nutes more accesible for your plants.

Keep plowing under organic material everything year to keep your soil open.
 
I generally avoid plowing and tilling if I can help it but these beds have only been used for maybe two seasons total over the last 11 years so I'm leery of even running the discs through it...since it is leaves though I don't want them creating a mat, that would defeat the purpose of breaking up the clay.  What can often happen with plowing is you end up turning your good topsoil under the clay that hasn't been worked yet and you're defeating the purpose because the lower levels of clay will mineralize the organic matter because it encases it away from microbes and fungi.  We have quite a bit of petrified wood around here, I assume it's because of the wood being buried at some point and not being able to break down and rot in the clay.
 
That's why you need to compost before plowing under. You'll need a lot of composted organic matter to keep the heavy soil open. If you don't have sufficient organic matter, don't plow. You'll also need to keep doing that every season which is quite a pain in the ass to be honest. However, if your soil drains enough (which is hard for clay) worms will thrive and help you keeping the soil loose. If you don't have the ability to plow or have a neighbor with a bobcat, just create small lots. Because a small lot of good soil is still a lot better than a large area with crappy soil. Rice hulls and straw would be a cheap solution, if they sell it in your area.
 
IF you have a woodchipper.. also chip up a LOT of wood. However NEVER use them fresh as they will deplete the soil of nitrogen (binds it, making it inaccesible for your plants). But if you have the time and space to compost a big pile of woodchips (put it somewhere out of reach of flammable materials like buildings or trees/shrubs - composting can create a lot of heat!). Mix everything in that pile, grass clippings will add a lot of nitrogen.. fresh manure and leafs will do as well. Turn the pile once every 3 months to make sure everything composts properly. A starter culture ($6 box) of compostingstarter will help a lot. Also add some calcium and epsom salt when you have turned the heap. This pile will take about 2 years to properly compost with compoststarter. Without it it will take about 3-4 years. It would really help losening up your clay. Allthough clay is a very hard soil to grow on, it also holds up moist and nutrients great.. the problem it's often to dense to drain and root.
 
How big is the lot that you are trying to upgrade?
 
(PS. Please excuse any typos, my spelling auto correct is fighting my English.. as it's obviously not my native tongue)
 
 
on a much smaller scale than you... but i layer it up in the fall with leaves, greens, and red clay.  I do 1 roll over forking during that hot week in Feb we get every year... and by April when i'm planting, its mostly ready to go into the beds. I grew most of my peppers in 100% this mix this summer and they did incredible. 
 
The pros of mulching in general is they break down faster and hold more water which makes them break down even faster.  It's not that more water = faster per se, but rather for bacterial action they need to not dry out.
 
Tilling them into the soil makes them do this even better since in-ground they are even less likely to dry out, BUT if you could somehow till them into the soil without them mulching up then that would have pretty much the same effect.  The main thing is that for max benefit they need to stay damp for a few months, and the decomposition process speeds up as temperature rises, especially above about 40F.
 
You don't have to compost before tilling under.  Your soil, given a decent organic matter to clay ratio, would only need tilled again when it's time to transplant and seed, then don't water any more than necessary to help the roots get established good before the soil compacts much.  Do water in fresh transplants, but that water will dissipate into surronding ground soil to reach a good moisture level instead of keeping the whole area saturated, then you won't need to water much if at all till it gets hot day after day. This assumes your area receives occasional late spring rain.
 
However, using clay soil is much more of a problem in pots than in the ground.  In the ground you can go much longer between watering so the moisture level stays in a good range "UNLESS" you get an excessive amount of rain in which case it's good to have the soil in a raised bed as well as addt'l organic matter to help with drainage.
 
The native soil here is high clay and worms don't have a problem with it, but I do still find the highest concentrations of them under bricks lining some landscaping and cement stepping stones, which I harvest for relocation into pots for other plants.
 
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