Newbie Questions About Variety Integrity

coachspencerxc

coachspencerxc

I've been gardening off & on for 20 years & this was my most ambitious year, with about 1000 square feet. Grew a little bit of everything with only a few run of the mill varieties of peppers (though I have gotten about 500 jalapenos this year). I have been familiar with & dabbled a little with very hot sauces since the mid-90s hot sauce boom. 2015 will be the first year I've grown anything very hot. Most of the varieties of vegetables I grow are heirloom varieties.

Long intro & I think the varieties I plan on planting are all old varieties rather than developed varieties. Given what I think I know about hybrids, cross pollination & seed saving, how would one take a variety developed recently- Carolina Reaper, let's say, take seeds from them & expect a Carolina Reaper to grow. Isn't the Reaper a hybrid & wouldn't it not produce seeds not true to variety?

Question #2- How likely are varieties to cross pollinate in the garden? Everything I've read says you have to isolate varieties by a long distance but surely home gardeners can't do that. What are the real chances of this happening & what is the practical safe distance? If you're growing multiple types of peppers in the same garden & don't have a ton of room to separate, is there any reason to separate by 20' if thats all you have let's say or would that be just as likely to cross pollinate as putting them side by side?

I know these are all big time new questions & I run the risk of ridicule but oh well.

Thanks!
 
1 the hybrids are stabilized by growing them out and selecting the "true" phenotype fruit. People usually start releasing around fifth gen f5. Usually 8th generation f8 is completely "stable".
A new hybrid f1 or f2 are super unstable.

2 you can isolate using organza bags around the flowers to prevent them from getting other pollen. Another method is to glue the flower shut so it self pollenates.
 
Thanks. Answer to question #1 makes sense. ...and pardon my ignorance... I've read about bagging. Don't the flowers need to be pollinated somehow? And am I putting the bags on at the first sight of blossoms? Annnd do all flowers need to be bagged or am I just bagging a couple and just harvesting pods for seeds that have been bagged?

THANKS!
 
coachspencerxc said:
Thanks. Answer to question #1 makes sense. ...and pardon my ignorance... I've read about bagging. Don't the flowers need to be pollinated somehow? And am I putting the bags on at the first sight of blossoms? Annnd do all flowers need to be bagged or am I just bagging a couple and just harvesting pods for seeds that have been bagged?

THANKS!
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peppers are 100% self pollinating. (why you can glue them shut and they will still produce) So generally you put the bag on a branch with a few buds (before they open into flowers). you wait for them to flower and maybe shake it a little bit. 
Only need to bag the ones you want to be isolated seed.
 
I find that the gluing method works well, you need to use a good white type glue that is also water resistant because the glue will let the flower open and then the pollen from other peppers can cross pollinate with the ones you are saving for pure seeds you need to tag the flowers you have glued so that you will know what pods have your pure seeds. The Reaper is slightly unstable i would use one of our best vendors to buy reaper seeds like Judy at pepperlover.com She has some great pepper varieties that will grow true for you. She also has some varieties that are nearly stable that you can do a selection with and grow one out for yourself.
You can also bag the stems that has several blooms on them or even cage off a whole plant using mosquito netting draped and tied over the entire plant the netting needs to be white colored or you can bleach it so that your plants gets enough light while blooming.
I find that this works well if you want to save seeds from lots of pods.
 
As far as spacing them out, yes a 20' distance would result in much lower cross rate than right next to each other, and of course even further being better.  However if you have a particular plant you are growing for seed purposes, you might consider putting it in a pot as far away from the rest as possible if it can't go in-ground to accomplish that, and just discard the seeds from plants growing in a more risky, closer vicinity to each other.
 
Thanks, everyone. With peppers particularly, what are the chances open pollinated plants will yield funky crosses... like if I bought a box of pods from someone here & saved the seeds? Obviously not looking for a specific % but would you say more or less likely to be true to type? Thanks for helping the newbie. :)
 
Less likely to be true. A lot of people tend to label the results of these peppers "Not (pepper variety)" for this or when a pepper doesn't grow true.

From pods you'd be receiving OP, open pollinated seed. Some people save OP seed, some don't. I have a hard time discarding OP seed into the compost, sometimes I save it too :)
 
I try to save mine, and ill try even harder now because they have just screwed with our seed import laws so now we cant buy seeds from overseas.
No more pepperlover for us :(
 
Anyway my view is, if it came from a super hot mother, it will probably be pretty damn hot, and if its open pollinated there's a chance of "special" thrown in there as well.
 
nzchili said:
I try to save mine, and ill try even harder now because they have just screwed with our seed import laws so now we cant buy seeds from overseas.
No more pepperlover for us :(
 
Anyway my view is, if it came from a super hot mother, it will probably be pretty damn hot, and if its open pollinated there's a chance of "special" thrown in there as well.
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Uhhh balls to that :D Just ask Judy to leave the package unmarked on the outside. There is a whole industry that sends seeds unlabeled through the mail.... :P
 
A lot of people get too caught up on a name of a pepper, even if someone growing something with the same name 1000 miles away isn't growing exactly the same thing.  Plants have cross bred for millions of years and only in recent times has man tried to fixate on some particular cross, treating it like it is unique, like it's not a cross when it almost certainly is from some point in its ancestry. 
 
The real problem with crosses is when you want to trade or sell seeds and give someone an assurance of what the seed will produce.
 
Dave2000 said:
A lot of people get too caught up on a name of a pepper, even if someone growing something with the same name 1000 miles away isn't growing exactly the same thing.  Plants have cross bred for millions of years and only in recent times has man tried to fixate on some particular cross, treating it like it is unique, like it's not a cross when it almost certainly is from some point in its ancestry. 
 
The real problem with crosses is when you want to trade or sell seeds and give someone an assurance of what the seed will produce.
Click to expand...
I like your perspective. Good stuff.
 
#1 As to Hybrids or heirloom, It really depends on if your paying Money for the seeds, as If your paying you want to get you pay for.  I hate to say but IMO to few of the  seed Co's from what I have seen on THP  Isolate breed or don't even send what the people order, ordering off Ebay or Amazon, is a real Gamble,  Judy of Pepperlover.com is pretty darn good and you get IMO more then you pay for.   I wouldn't expect 100% from anyone but at lest 90% that way if you do get a cross your not too upset :)  Also some crosses are pretty darn cool.  Were not talking about Pedigree Dogs Etc so don't get caught up as to the strain, Most super Hots are well super hot and I can't really say one is better then the next as to eating them, they all are hotter then most can handle.  I haven't ate a whole pod but sure like super hot Jerky.   
 
#2 I use Masking tape over the petals, works pretty well, or empty tea Bags. I tap them mid day to help knock the pollen around inside the flower.. even if you don't put anything over them at lest 50% should be Self pollinated anyhow.  
 
Mr. Hill said:
#1 As to Hybrids or heirloom, It really depends on if your paying Money for the seeds, as If your paying you want to get you pay for.  I hate to say but IMO to few of the  seed Co's from what I have seen on THP  Isolate breed or don't even send what the people order, ordering off Ebay or Amazon, is a real Gamble,  Judy of Pepperlover.com is pretty darn good and you get IMO more then you pay for.   I wouldn't expect 100% from anyone but at lest 90% that way if you do get a cross your not too upset :)  Also some crosses are pretty darn cool.  Were not talking about Pedigree Dogs Etc so don't get caught up as to the strain, Most super Hots are well super hot and I can't really say one is better then the next as to eating them, they all are hotter then most can handle.  I haven't ate a whole pod but sure like super hot Jerky.   
 
#2 I use Masking tape over the petals, works pretty well, or empty tea Bags. I tap them mid day to help knock the pollen around inside the flower.. even if you don't put anything over them at lest 50% should be Self pollinated anyhow.  
Click to expand...
Thanks Mr. Hill & all. Great answers. Very helpful!
 
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