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seeds Newbie...What's going on with my seedlings?
- Thread starter Zoey
- Start date
Here are a few photos of what I've got going on:
Here's what I did for my cheap & dirty hydro. I work with a ton of women, and it seems like every one of them had a kid within the last few months. So, getting baby formula containers is a breeze. I just chopped a hole in the top of them with a Dremmel and added a net basket. I fill the container until the hydro fluid just touches the bottom of the net cup.
I had some .90₵ organizer container thingy's collecting dust, so they got the same chop-up. I know that the plants will be too close to each other at some point, but space is at a premium right now in the nursery.
My Hab's have been looking horrible, so I thought "What the heck", why not try moving them to hydro? The two Reapers I have in hydro are doing exceptional, so we'll see what happens.
And, here's a parting shot of the nursery. Most of them are Reapers from seeds that I harvested off of the three larger plants last summer. I am seriously concerned about the health of the larger plants.
As a trial and error test, I've decided to take a row of potted seedlings and exclusively bottom-water them with hydro fluid. The rest will get top-watering. I'll keep an eye on the bottom watering plants to see if I can figure out whether or not they are getting enough.
Question: When bottom watering, how much water do you put in the bottom of the second cup? Not knowing, I added about 1.25cm (0.5 inch) to each cup.
Here's what I did for my cheap & dirty hydro. I work with a ton of women, and it seems like every one of them had a kid within the last few months. So, getting baby formula containers is a breeze. I just chopped a hole in the top of them with a Dremmel and added a net basket. I fill the container until the hydro fluid just touches the bottom of the net cup.
I had some .90₵ organizer container thingy's collecting dust, so they got the same chop-up. I know that the plants will be too close to each other at some point, but space is at a premium right now in the nursery.
My Hab's have been looking horrible, so I thought "What the heck", why not try moving them to hydro? The two Reapers I have in hydro are doing exceptional, so we'll see what happens.
And, here's a parting shot of the nursery. Most of them are Reapers from seeds that I harvested off of the three larger plants last summer. I am seriously concerned about the health of the larger plants.
As a trial and error test, I've decided to take a row of potted seedlings and exclusively bottom-water them with hydro fluid. The rest will get top-watering. I'll keep an eye on the bottom watering plants to see if I can figure out whether or not they are getting enough.
Question: When bottom watering, how much water do you put in the bottom of the second cup? Not knowing, I added about 1.25cm (0.5 inch) to each cup.
Just an update about what I've got going on.
I got tired of knocking plants over, so I decided to expand the nursery. I bought some more foam insulation and another 4-bulb lamp. Breathing room is really nice, and makes watering so much easier.
I wanted to get some more heat into the nursery, so I tapped a duct hose off of the HVAC unit. Now, whenever the heat in the house kicks on, some is diverted into the nursery. It keeps it at around 24C.
The adult plants still look like heck. The soil down towards the bottom of the container is "Wet+" according to my meter, but from about the midpoint to the top of the soil it reads "Dry".
Since the plants in hydro are doing so well, I decided to move some more of the stragglers.
You can see how much better the hydro plants are doing than the plants in cups.
What I don't really understand is, why do plants do so poorly if the soil is too wet, but when they are in hydro, the roots are constantly wet, and they do fantastic?
I got tired of knocking plants over, so I decided to expand the nursery. I bought some more foam insulation and another 4-bulb lamp. Breathing room is really nice, and makes watering so much easier.
I wanted to get some more heat into the nursery, so I tapped a duct hose off of the HVAC unit. Now, whenever the heat in the house kicks on, some is diverted into the nursery. It keeps it at around 24C.
The adult plants still look like heck. The soil down towards the bottom of the container is "Wet+" according to my meter, but from about the midpoint to the top of the soil it reads "Dry".
Since the plants in hydro are doing so well, I decided to move some more of the stragglers.
You can see how much better the hydro plants are doing than the plants in cups.
What I don't really understand is, why do plants do so poorly if the soil is too wet, but when they are in hydro, the roots are constantly wet, and they do fantastic?
That's a pretty sweet setup you got going on! A lot of plants to handle for sure. Give the bigger plants some more time to use up the nutrients and restore themselves a bit. I would start fertilizing again when the crinkles in the leaves straighten out a bit. I'm fertilizing my guys once or twice a week (about every 3rd watering) with a mild PPM of about 300. I will increase this a little to 500 or just water with 300 every time I water.
With hydroponics a lot has to do with the fertilizer for one. The nutrients are available for immediate uptake by the plant allowing it to instantly make use of them. Nutrients are always available and also water is always available. It would be something like humans having an IV with nutrition hooked up to us with already available nutrients we didn't have to take the time to digest that would constantly supply us with protein and calcium, etc. (Obviously not a completely transferable example). Instead of having to go through periods of hungry and full we would always be just right, ideally. So with hydroponics the plants receive oxygen because the water is oxygenated, or if it's not then enough of the roots should be exposed to oxygen water and nutrients at a constant supply. For soil: water and nutrients are available in bursts of time and that's why it takes longer for the plant to grow. If you keep the soil wet the plants do not get oxygen so it's always a balancing game.
I'm actually planning on using a sort of "hybrid" system this year called the Autopot (it's a bit overpriced and now that I've researched hydroponics a bit I'm not sure I made the best choice but we'll see). What it does is bottom feed the plants using a valve that triggers watering when the soil wicks up enough moisture and then dries out, providing the plant with an "ideal watering" environment. You fill the reservoir with nutrient solution and it feeds by gravity to the trays. I wanted a system with very little maintenance that I could leave alone for a while.
Forgot to mention that other fertilizers, like organic for instance need microorganisms or time to break down into available forms to the plant in comparison to the already purified forms found in hydroponic fertilizer.
With hydroponics a lot has to do with the fertilizer for one. The nutrients are available for immediate uptake by the plant allowing it to instantly make use of them. Nutrients are always available and also water is always available. It would be something like humans having an IV with nutrition hooked up to us with already available nutrients we didn't have to take the time to digest that would constantly supply us with protein and calcium, etc. (Obviously not a completely transferable example). Instead of having to go through periods of hungry and full we would always be just right, ideally. So with hydroponics the plants receive oxygen because the water is oxygenated, or if it's not then enough of the roots should be exposed to oxygen water and nutrients at a constant supply. For soil: water and nutrients are available in bursts of time and that's why it takes longer for the plant to grow. If you keep the soil wet the plants do not get oxygen so it's always a balancing game.
I'm actually planning on using a sort of "hybrid" system this year called the Autopot (it's a bit overpriced and now that I've researched hydroponics a bit I'm not sure I made the best choice but we'll see). What it does is bottom feed the plants using a valve that triggers watering when the soil wicks up enough moisture and then dries out, providing the plant with an "ideal watering" environment. You fill the reservoir with nutrient solution and it feeds by gravity to the trays. I wanted a system with very little maintenance that I could leave alone for a while.
Forgot to mention that other fertilizers, like organic for instance need microorganisms or time to break down into available forms to the plant in comparison to the already purified forms found in hydroponic fertilizer.
Thanks, but the nursery looks better in photos than in real life. I pretty much did it on the cheap.
I did some reading around on this site, and came to the tentative conclusion that watering isn't the issue (however, I may be completely wrong). Like you, I think it must be too much fertilizer. I have Oscal in the soil, and have been feeding alternating hydroponics and Miracle Grow. Too much I'm afraid.
So, I took a bold step tonight by taking one of the adult plants into the wash tub and thoroughly saturated the soil with water, and letting it drain from the bottom. From what I've read, this will help to flush out the excess nutrients. If I'm wrong, I'll be down one plant. I am freaked out at how wet the soil is, and it will take ages to dry up. Once it does, I'm going to do as you suggest; ease into the fertilizer.
Thanks for the explanation about hydro v.s. soil. With the results I have been getting, I think that hydro in the basement is the way to go. Mental note for next season (or maybe I'll grow all year around). I would love to do hydro outside, but I think I've spent enough money for my first year of growing. I did buy a fish tank air pump last summer, but haven't done anything with it yet. I was going to cut holes in some bus-tubs for hydro, and aerate them with the pump, but I didn't expect so many of my seedlings to grow. So, I quickly ran out of space for the tubs.
It's no wonder they charge a buck a pod around here. These little buggers aren't easy to grow!
Thanks a million for the help! I hope I can return the favor some day!
I did some reading around on this site, and came to the tentative conclusion that watering isn't the issue (however, I may be completely wrong). Like you, I think it must be too much fertilizer. I have Oscal in the soil, and have been feeding alternating hydroponics and Miracle Grow. Too much I'm afraid.
So, I took a bold step tonight by taking one of the adult plants into the wash tub and thoroughly saturated the soil with water, and letting it drain from the bottom. From what I've read, this will help to flush out the excess nutrients. If I'm wrong, I'll be down one plant. I am freaked out at how wet the soil is, and it will take ages to dry up. Once it does, I'm going to do as you suggest; ease into the fertilizer.
Thanks for the explanation about hydro v.s. soil. With the results I have been getting, I think that hydro in the basement is the way to go. Mental note for next season (or maybe I'll grow all year around). I would love to do hydro outside, but I think I've spent enough money for my first year of growing. I did buy a fish tank air pump last summer, but haven't done anything with it yet. I was going to cut holes in some bus-tubs for hydro, and aerate them with the pump, but I didn't expect so many of my seedlings to grow. So, I quickly ran out of space for the tubs.
It's no wonder they charge a buck a pod around here. These little buggers aren't easy to grow!
Thanks a million for the help! I hope I can return the favor some day!
If you are growing inside I would go with hydroponics because you want to maximize every bit of energy and yields. I would also love to take hydroponics outside.
I was going to suggest "flushing" the soil as well. I've read that when you have over fertilized its not a bad idea to keep the soil wetter than usual. To kill a plant from overwatering takes some time unless the soil is simply bog-like. I mixed some manure in with peat one time and it created a swamp and my plants didn't die but they looked close to it. I am learning as well so am interested in figuring out the solution. The problem with plants in general is that they can only show so many "complaints" and often times different underlying issues give rise to the same/similar visual symptoms.
I was going to suggest "flushing" the soil as well. I've read that when you have over fertilized its not a bad idea to keep the soil wetter than usual. To kill a plant from overwatering takes some time unless the soil is simply bog-like. I mixed some manure in with peat one time and it created a swamp and my plants didn't die but they looked close to it. I am learning as well so am interested in figuring out the solution. The problem with plants in general is that they can only show so many "complaints" and often times different underlying issues give rise to the same/similar visual symptoms.
Thanks Yani! I guess it's just some watchful-waiting at this point. If flushing one of the adult plants doesn't kill it, and it starts to look better, I'll do the same for the other two.
I'll just keep posting photos of the progress to this thread. Sort of a "See what a newbie does to either grow or kill his plants".
I'll just keep posting photos of the progress to this thread. Sort of a "See what a newbie does to either grow or kill his plants".
Haha I thought about starting one of those as well. If nothing else I think it's wonderful for posterity the information that people can search through and find answers for the issues they are having the better.
I'm sure they will turn out fine. In the end we're growing fruit not leaves so if the peppers come out fine then it won't matter too much if the plants themselves look a bit funny.
Keep us posted.
I'm sure they will turn out fine. In the end we're growing fruit not leaves so if the peppers come out fine then it won't matter too much if the plants themselves look a bit funny.
Keep us posted.
Another update on my pepper growing/killing.
Most of the seedlings are doing well. I keep getting aphid infestations, so I decided to spray everyone once a week, hence the reason you see a white milky crust on the leaves.
Adult Reaper #1 looks like death, and continues to drop leaves. The leaves are yellowing as well.
This is adult Reaper #2, which I flushed the soil with water several days ago. It continues to drop leaves, but isn't quite as yellow looking as plant #1.
The plants I moved into hydroponics are doing so much better. In fact, several of them have roots popping through the bottom of the net cups. One of the plants that is in a baby formula hydro container has a huge root system. So huge that it's getting difficult to remove it from the container so I can add water.
I will be leaving for vacation shortly, and have a neighbor caring for the plants while I'm gone. Despite leaving detailed instructions for care, I've got the feeling that things are going to go in a bad direction.
Fingers crossed!
Most of the seedlings are doing well. I keep getting aphid infestations, so I decided to spray everyone once a week, hence the reason you see a white milky crust on the leaves.
Adult Reaper #1 looks like death, and continues to drop leaves. The leaves are yellowing as well.
This is adult Reaper #2, which I flushed the soil with water several days ago. It continues to drop leaves, but isn't quite as yellow looking as plant #1.
The plants I moved into hydroponics are doing so much better. In fact, several of them have roots popping through the bottom of the net cups. One of the plants that is in a baby formula hydro container has a huge root system. So huge that it's getting difficult to remove it from the container so I can add water.
I will be leaving for vacation shortly, and have a neighbor caring for the plants while I'm gone. Despite leaving detailed instructions for care, I've got the feeling that things are going to go in a bad direction.
Fingers crossed!
What are you using as "soil"? That's a bummer about the reeper pepper but I'm glad all is not lost/bad news. I don't know what could be causing that other than a possibility of too much water retention. I hope you can get it figured out. If nothing else or if it seems like it's going to perish trim them down a bit and put them in hydro too.
http://valleycresttakeson.com/watermanagement/resources/four-signs-you-are-overwatering-your-plants/
See towards the end of the article.
See towards the end of the article.
I'm using Miracle Grow Potting Mix (the only thing I could find around here at this time of the year), but there is a fair amount of old soil mixed in from last summer. It was probably a bad idea to combine the two because one holds moisture well, and the other not so well. I end up with patches of dry soil in some parts of the pot, and wet in others.
That was a good read, Yani. The leaves are just as the last paragraph describes. However, using my moisture meter is hard because of the poor homogenization of the soil, so I'm not exactly sure when I should water.
Maybe it's in the best interest to pull the plant up and re-pot it? Thanks Yani! Now you've really got me thinking!
That was a good read, Yani. The leaves are just as the last paragraph describes. However, using my moisture meter is hard because of the poor homogenization of the soil, so I'm not exactly sure when I should water.
Maybe it's in the best interest to pull the plant up and re-pot it? Thanks Yani! Now you've really got me thinking!
Soil used for containers was one of my major issues last summer and it almost killed most of my tomato seedlings before I found out what the issue was. I used mostly manure and peat, not thinking things through and the medium turned into a bog. I didn't catch the issue – because it was in a self-watering container that has black plastic over it – until I became suspicious that the plants were not growing and looking very sickly. But they were small and your plant is a bit larger.
It's hard to say looking at the images but the soil doesn't look too bad from what I can tell and the plants seem to have a good bit of life in them. If you are planning on putting them in a hydro setup, then I might say go for it after washing the roots out very very well. However, changing out the soil may be difficult and cause more damage. I don't know. It's really your call but I might just wait and see how long it takes for the Reapers to drain the soil a bit. Then water accordingly.
Do you plan to take them outside any time soon? I don't know what you're climate is like but they will definitely dry out faster once outside in warm weather. Meaning, if you can wait until that time the plant may be fine thereafter.
It's hard to say looking at the images but the soil doesn't look too bad from what I can tell and the plants seem to have a good bit of life in them. If you are planning on putting them in a hydro setup, then I might say go for it after washing the roots out very very well. However, changing out the soil may be difficult and cause more damage. I don't know. It's really your call but I might just wait and see how long it takes for the Reapers to drain the soil a bit. Then water accordingly.
Do you plan to take them outside any time soon? I don't know what you're climate is like but they will definitely dry out faster once outside in warm weather. Meaning, if you can wait until that time the plant may be fine thereafter.
More than likely, I won't move the big plants to hydro. It seems like a huge amount of work for three plants. Being that it's still below freezing around here, I won't be able to move any of the plants outside until sometime in May. If they can just hold on for a few more months...
I did see a YouTube video of someone who ran a PVC pipe from the bottom of the pot, and they water the plant through the pipe. I guess it's like bottom feeding? I'm not sure why bottom feeding works so much better, but it seems like it's highly endorsed, and my seedlings seem to really like it a lot?
How many plants do you have indoors right now?
I did see a YouTube video of someone who ran a PVC pipe from the bottom of the pot, and they water the plant through the pipe. I guess it's like bottom feeding? I'm not sure why bottom feeding works so much better, but it seems like it's highly endorsed, and my seedlings seem to really like it a lot?
How many plants do you have indoors right now?
I've got about 11 going. This is my first pepper grow and it was easy to get a bit out of control and I don't have the space for it so I had to really limit myself. I will probably expand next year. These guys started sprouting on the 1st of Febrauary and this is then just a minute ago:
I bottom feed primarily to allow the plants to evenly absorb as much water as the soil will retain and to prevent any nutrients to be washed out. I don't know if bottom feeding will prevent overwatering but it's a good way to keep water at the bottom of the root system if you just water a little bit that way. You could also put the pot in a container/tray and it should wick up the water.
I bottom feed primarily to allow the plants to evenly absorb as much water as the soil will retain and to prevent any nutrients to be washed out. I don't know if bottom feeding will prevent overwatering but it's a good way to keep water at the bottom of the root system if you just water a little bit that way. You could also put the pot in a container/tray and it should wick up the water.
I've got 5 jalapeños going so many because I'd like to smoke them and make chipotle powder; 3 chocolate habaneros; 2 poblanos, I believe; and one Guajillo. I am also trying to reasesitate my Thai chili plant From last year. But if that fails I'll just go get a few Bonnie offers. I wanted to grow a few cayenne peppers but non have sprouted yet. Dunno what's up with the.
I'm using 50/50 perlite and spagham peat moss. Since my main issue last year was overwatering and over fertilizing, I've been letting the soil dry to the touch but then I'll lift them up and feel how heavy they are and try to guess how much water is left in the cups. Also knowing what the signs of overwatering are now I try to adjust if I give them too much by waiting an extra day the next time.
The fertilizer I'm using is the same as yours, MaxiGrow. What I do here is (I may have stated earlier) feed 200-300ppm about every other time sometimes every third watering. There isn't much science to it except keeping the ppm on the low side and observing the leaves for signs of over fertilization. My habaneros took a bit a hit early on because I started them in a sandy mixture as an experiment so they are smaller in growth and it's obvious the fertilizer is a bit strong for them because the leaves are pretty bunched and crinkled but for the sake of time and efficiency I give them the same dosage as the others. I think they should be fine. I'm having to raise the light one click everyday...it's pretty exciting.
Also, I have them in an old cardboard box completely lined with aluminum foil which I believe is helping to keep all that light bouncing around and absorbed by the plants. Not sure though to what degree it's helped but I think it does. I know that I have to put sunglasses on though once I lined otherwise I see stars for a while, which was not the case before.
I'm really hoping to put some of the guys outside next week
Here you can see the Chocolate Habs to the right compared with the rest:
I'm using 50/50 perlite and spagham peat moss. Since my main issue last year was overwatering and over fertilizing, I've been letting the soil dry to the touch but then I'll lift them up and feel how heavy they are and try to guess how much water is left in the cups. Also knowing what the signs of overwatering are now I try to adjust if I give them too much by waiting an extra day the next time.
The fertilizer I'm using is the same as yours, MaxiGrow. What I do here is (I may have stated earlier) feed 200-300ppm about every other time sometimes every third watering. There isn't much science to it except keeping the ppm on the low side and observing the leaves for signs of over fertilization. My habaneros took a bit a hit early on because I started them in a sandy mixture as an experiment so they are smaller in growth and it's obvious the fertilizer is a bit strong for them because the leaves are pretty bunched and crinkled but for the sake of time and efficiency I give them the same dosage as the others. I think they should be fine. I'm having to raise the light one click everyday...it's pretty exciting.
Also, I have them in an old cardboard box completely lined with aluminum foil which I believe is helping to keep all that light bouncing around and absorbed by the plants. Not sure though to what degree it's helped but I think it does. I know that I have to put sunglasses on though once I lined otherwise I see stars for a while, which was not the case before.
I'm really hoping to put some of the guys outside next week
Here you can see the Chocolate Habs to the right compared with the rest:
You say that you are using 200-300 ppm of MaxiGrow every other feeding or so. This got me thinking about what I have been doing, and what my plants currently look like. So, 200-300 is something like mixing in 1/4tsp per gallon of water, right?
I've been mixing in about 1.5 tsp per gallon of water, and using it to feed every time. Today I noticed that the seedling plant leaves are extremely dark green, and beginning to curl upwards at the edges of the leaves. I just read somewhere that this is a telltale sign of over-fertilization.
I went back and looked at the MaxiGrow hydro chart that another member here provided, and I see that I'm overdoing it. I really need to go back and re-read what I've been told by everyone in this thread.
I live in growing zone 4a, so the plants won't be going outside anytime soon.
I've been mixing in about 1.5 tsp per gallon of water, and using it to feed every time. Today I noticed that the seedling plant leaves are extremely dark green, and beginning to curl upwards at the edges of the leaves. I just read somewhere that this is a telltale sign of over-fertilization.
I went back and looked at the MaxiGrow hydro chart that another member here provided, and I see that I'm overdoing it. I really need to go back and re-read what I've been told by everyone in this thread.
I live in growing zone 4a, so the plants won't be going outside anytime soon.
Ya I think it was me providing you with a link to GH and suggesting you cut it down. I would actually just use water for a while until they "regain themselves." Over fertilizing will ironically cause stunting and can in some instances be used strategically for certain purposes but I'm researching about that now.
I think 1tsp per gallon is about right but just use water for now. I'll have to measure how much that translates to in ppm but investing in a meter would be a good idea. They are about 20-30 dollars. Chili peppers do not like high ppm of nutrients from the research I have done.
I think 1tsp per gallon is about right but just use water for now. I'll have to measure how much that translates to in ppm but investing in a meter would be a good idea. They are about 20-30 dollars. Chili peppers do not like high ppm of nutrients from the research I have done.
I took some photos to get your opinion, and to make sure I'm on the right track.
As you can see, the leaves are super dark green. They are also wrinkled, and some of the leaf edges are curling upwards. I'm thinking that this is maybe a combination of over fertilization and over watering? What do you think?
This is one of the plants in hydro solution (not aerated). The top leaves are lacking in some color, but I'm wondering if this is just because it's new growth?
Some of the plants are even growing little flower buds. Being that the plants are so young, I should cut the flower buds off?
Just another shot of some wrinkly leaves. You can also see some variations in color across some of the leaves. I'm still leaning towards this being a case of too much fertilizer.
Again, the white scale-like stuff you see on the leaves is Permethrin aphid killer. I may have to invest in a meter very soon!
Thanks for the help Yani. I've enjoyed our conversations!
As you can see, the leaves are super dark green. They are also wrinkled, and some of the leaf edges are curling upwards. I'm thinking that this is maybe a combination of over fertilization and over watering? What do you think?
This is one of the plants in hydro solution (not aerated). The top leaves are lacking in some color, but I'm wondering if this is just because it's new growth?
Some of the plants are even growing little flower buds. Being that the plants are so young, I should cut the flower buds off?
Just another shot of some wrinkly leaves. You can also see some variations in color across some of the leaves. I'm still leaning towards this being a case of too much fertilizer.
Again, the white scale-like stuff you see on the leaves is Permethrin aphid killer. I may have to invest in a meter very soon!
Thanks for the help Yani. I've enjoyed our conversations!