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NPK for setting fruit/ripening

N

newbiepepperguy

I've got tall and/or bushy plants all over the garden, but some seem to be putting too much energy into foliage growth rather than setting flowers/fruit or ripening fruit. I'm thinking of switching to a low N feeding from here on out (1-5-4). Any suggestions on if that's a good or horrible idea and why?
 
newbiepepperguy said:
I've got tall and/or bushy plants all over the garden, but some seem to be putting too much energy into foliage growth rather than setting flowers/fruit or ripening fruit. I'm thinking of switching to a low N feeding from here on out (1-5-4). Any suggestions on if that's a good or horrible idea and why?
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Do you have pictures?
 
browndd1 said:
 
Do you have pictures?
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I can take some when I get home. Plants are healthy, and most of them don't have this issue. It's actually mostly the bell peppers that are like 4-5 feet tall, but have maybe one flower and/or pepper each. Plenty of buds, just not blooms/peppers. 
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
I can take some when I get home. Plants are healthy, and most of them don't have this issue. It's actually mostly the bell peppers that are like 4-5 feet tall, but have maybe one flower and/or pepper each. Plenty of buds, just not blooms/peppers. 
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Yeah, you definitely need to cut back on the nitrogen it sounds like and give them a higher ratio of phosphorous.  What have you been fertilizing them with?
 
browndd1 said:
 
Yeah, you definitely need to cut back on the nitrogen it sounds like and give them a higher ratio of phosphorous.  What have you been fertilizing them with?
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They've been getting a 3-1-2, and I'm looking to change to a 1-5-4. Does that sound about right?
 
EDIT: They started with 3-1-2 (as seedlings/young plants), that was the other CNS17 product (Grow, and looking at Ripe). They've had a balanced (pretty much 1-1-1) since then.
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
They've been getting a 3-1-2, and I'm looking to change to a 1-5-4. Does that sound about right?
 
EDIT: They started with 3-1-2 (as seedlings/young plants), that was the other CNS17 product (Grow, and looking at Ripe). They've had a balanced (pretty much 1-1-1) since then.
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Send some pictures when you get a chance.  You may want to hold the nitrogen for a while and observe them.
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
They've been getting a 3-1-2, and I'm looking to change to a 1-5-4. Does that sound about right?
 
EDIT: They started with 3-1-2 (as seedlings/young plants), that was the other CNS17 product (Grow, and looking at Ripe). They've had a balanced (pretty much 1-1-1) since then.
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Seems that you know what to do, high P will help to produce flowers on the plant and high K will then support pods. But if you have already high N in soil, the flowering could be delayed.
 
bloom boosters are a scam/waste of money: the owner of dynagro is quoted as saying that those fertilizers are made due to consumer demand and have little science to back up the benefits. high phosphorous fertilizers hurt beneficial microbes in the soil and plants can only assimilate very small amounts of phosphorous. not to mention phosphorous salt buildup in the soil is very damaging to roots and this is even more a problem in containers. all plants require nutrients in roughly the 3-1-2 ratio with few exceptions. use plain water for a few waterings and then simply reduce your fertilization to 1/2  or 1/4 dose or more and make sure the plants are getting enough calcium and magnesium. there is no need to buy more than one type of water soluble fertilizer if you have the nutrients in the right ratio which is what you have. 
 
thefish said:
bloom boosters are a scam/waste of money: the owner of dynagro is quoted as saying that those fertilizers are made due to consumer demand and have little science to back up the benefits. high phosphorous fertilizers hurt beneficial microbes in the soil and plants can only assimilate very small amounts of phosphorous. not to mention phosphorous salt buildup in the soil is very damaging to roots and this is even more a problem in containers. all plants require nutrients in roughly the 3-1-2 ratio with few exceptions. use plain water for a few waterings and then simply reduce your fertilization to 1/2  or 1/4 dose or more and make sure the plants are getting enough calcium and magnesium. there is no need to buy more than one type of water soluble fertilizer if you have the nutrients in the right ratio which is what you have. 
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Thanks. I've already been using CAL-MAG to make sure there's no deficiency with either calcium or magnesium.
 
Out of curiosity, could you link to some of the studies about all plants needing a 3-1-2 ratio? I've genuinely never heard that before. I mean, I've heard close to that (as in, you need calcium to allow uptake of other nutes, you need proper PH to allow uptake of nutes, etc) but never that no plants at any stage in their development have different needs than any other plants at any other stage of development. And I promise i'm not trying to sound sarcastic - I genuinely want to learn new info on this.
 
And as what I suppose is a secondary point of confusion for me, isn't a blanket statement about what kind of ratio *all* plants need a little misguided? Without knowing the soil conditions, watering regimen/rain amounts, pre-existing deficiencies, etc, isn't it impossible to know what an ideal ratio for a given grower is?
 
I'd say given info like "my plants are doing x, or y is happening" you can recommend corrective action z based on a diagnosis of the likely cause of the issue. But without knowing that info, my concern is that someone could have a preexisting low amount of available P or K and/or an overabundance of N, and recommending 3-1-2 would seem to be possibly less than ideal.
 
Again, I could be wrong - that's why I'd be interested to see the studies on this. I'd say the notion that 3-1-2 is ideal/only possible uptake ratio doesn't sound ridiculous to me - I'd just also say that doesn't mean that's the ratio with which a plant needs to be *fed*. If it already has high/low amounts of N, P, or K available, wouldn't the correct nute ratio be different than the correct uptake ratio? As in, in order to achieve a 3-1-2 uptake ratio, a plant which doesn't already have a 3-1-2 ratio available can't possibly be fed an ideal ratio of 3-1-2 by definition.
 
newbiepepperguy said:
And as what I suppose is a secondary point of confusion for me, isn't a blanket statement about what kind of ratio *all* plants need a little misguided? Without knowing the soil conditions, watering regimen/rain amounts, pre-existing deficiencies, etc, isn't it impossible to know what an ideal ratio for a given grower is?
 
I'd say given info like "my plants are doing x, or y is happening" you can recommend corrective action z based on a diagnosis of the likely cause of the issue. But without knowing that info, my concern is that someone could have a preexisting low amount of available P or K and/or an overabundance of N, and recommending 3-1-2 would seem to be possibly less than ideal.
 
Again, I could be wrong - that's why I'd be interested to see the studies on this. I'd say the notion that 3-1-2 is ideal/only possible uptake ratio doesn't sound ridiculous to me - I'd just also say that doesn't mean that's the ratio with which a plant needs to be *fed*. If it already has high/low amounts of N, P, or K available, wouldn't the correct nute ratio be different than the correct uptake ratio? As in, in order to achieve a 3-1-2 uptake ratio, a plant which doesn't already have a 3-1-2 ratio available can't possibly be fed an ideal ratio of 3-1-2 by definition.
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Its a fairly accurate blanket statement. I can imagine that plants adapted for growing in extreme or very unique environments may like other ratios because they have adapted to their circumstances. Check out this thread from gardenweb: http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2107319/dyna-gro-folilage-pro-vs-dyn-gro-grow-question 
 
Its also entertaining because there is a die hard phosphorous fertilizer proponent having a total meltdown.
 
I'll link some more studies and good forum posts when I get home from work from MSU and the famed MSU fertilizers formulation about this ratio. The main point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to change the ratio you are feeding with you just need to supply LESS nitrogen and that MAY encourage blooming. If your goal is to reduce nitrogen to encourage blooms why the heck would you add a nutrient that plants dont need much of and cant even absorb? Bloom boosters have been debunked time and time again and at best they do nothing and at worst they load your root zone up with a bunch of phosphorous that your plant cant use and increase the likelihood of salt build up and root burn. There is no reason why you should have to buy 3 different types of fertilizer other than the manufacturers want you to buy 3x as much fertilizer and in the case of a lot of consumers apparently they want to buy 3 types of fertilizer as well.    
 
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