NPK ratio?

lek · May 21, 2017

solid7 said:
It's not about me. I give advice to growers who don't want to grow organically, just as I would those who do. I am ABLE to give that advice, because I've done both. I've done both, because I am a naturally curious learner, and wanted to know for myself.

how about growing pepper naturally, no synthetic chemical of all kind. no epsom salt, no hydroponic AB fertilizer, ... blah blah blah
the term organic is really misleading.

solid7 · May 21, 2017

lek said:
how about growing pepper naturally, no synthetic chemical of all kind. no epsom salt, no hydroponic AB fertilizer, ... blah blah blah
the term organic is really misleading.

Misleading, misnomer, whatever. It's what is understood and recognized.
.
It would be great if there weren't 7 billion people in the world, and we were all simple agrarians, growing only what we needed, and not pursuing foolish things that don't really matter. But it isn't. For everyone who really wants to know the nuts and bolts of growing shit, then you and I and anyone else who wants to take the time, can show them. For everyone else who is a little less idealistic, it can still be done.

Powelly · May 21, 2017

So in what scenarios is fish emulsion better than CNS17 grow
In what scenarios would you recommend one over the other?

solid7 · May 21, 2017

Powelly said:
So in what scenarios is fish emulsion better than CNS17 grow
In what scenarios would you recommend one over the other?

Try to pay attention, and not get lost...
.
It's not about me recommending one over the other. People decide for themselves what method of growing they want to use. I can give a recommendation that fits either style of growing. (as opposed to fighting the world on an issue that's never going to be won)
.
On second thought, let me rephrase this, so that you won't try to get clever, and talk this into an endless loop. I'd recommend the CNS17 Grow over the fish emulsion, when somebody wanted to grow conventionally. I'd recommend the fish emulsion over the CNS17 Grow, when someone wanted to grow organically. I'd give both as options when the grower was undecided. (as I have done)

Powelly · May 21, 2017

solid7 said:
Try to pay attention, and not get lost...
.
It's not about me recommending one over the other. People decide for themselves what method of growing they want to use. I can give a recommendation that fits either style of growing. (as opposed to fighting the world on an issue that's never going to be won)
.
On second thought, let me rephrase this, so that you won't try to get clever, and talk this into an endless loop. I'd recommend the CNS17 Grow over the fish emulsion, when somebody wanted to grow conventionally. I'd recommend the fish emulsion over the CNS17 Grow, when someone wanted to grow organically. I'd give both as options when the grower was undecided. (as I have done)

So CNS17 Grow is better than fish emulsion when growing "conventionally"?
Isn't fish emulsion compatible with "conventional" growing? I thought your best plants were grown with fish emulsion

solid7 · May 21, 2017

Powelly said:
So CNS17 Grow is better than fish emulsion when growing "conventionally"?
Isn't fish emulsion compatible with "conventional" growing? I thought your best plants were grown with fish emulsion

And? Every organic method on the planet (that I know of) is "compatible" with "conventional" growing.
.
May we see some of your plants?

Powelly · May 21, 2017

Sure I'll post them up, still producing strongly in the middle of Adelaide winter

But is CNS17 Grow is better than fish emulsion when growing "conventionally"?

solid7 · May 21, 2017

Powelly said:
Sure I'll post them up, still producing strongly in the middle of Adelaide winter

Please do that.

Powelly said:
But is CNS17 Grow is better than fish emulsion when growing "conventionally"?

When you are using CNS17 Grow, and not fish emulsion - for whatever reason - then yes, it very much is.
.
Sorry, I don't play that game, where you repeat the question as many times, or as forcefully as you have to, until I give you the answer that you want.

Powelly · May 21, 2017

So CNS17 grow is better than fish emulsion despite the fish emulsion giving the best results

solid7 · May 21, 2017

Powelly said:
So CNS17 grow is better than fish emulsion despite the fish emulsion giving the best results

When you have decided that you're not going to use fish emulsion, the answer is yes, every time.
.
We can do this forever, if you like...

Geonerd · May 29, 2017

FWIW, I'm not convinced that N

:K ratios mean much. So long as there is 'enough' of the big three, and all the micro-nutes and minerals, your plant will generally do fine. Just avoid overdosing with one nute or mineral to the point that it blocks uptake of another.

During my first year I fiddle-farted with assorted chemical ferts, with mediocre results. I'm sure these can be used with great results, but I never managed to keep the plants in the 'happy zone' for long before my container soil started to load up on salt and calcium, or got flushed to oblivion by the monsoonal rain. IMO, 'organic' or whatever you want to call it, seems much more tolerant of difficult conditions. Just schlep some on and water it in, without fretting that you're about to murder your plants.

Fish soup works well enough, but I think there is a danger of salt buildup. I've stunted about half my plants this season. Most are now growing well in fresh soil, but ... "lesson learned."

I'm REAL happy with the bat poop I can scrounge from beneath the local bridges. It seems to be damn-near a "universal" fert that contains all the goodies plants need. Look for poop from the SW - mexico, Tex, Az, etc. These are generally the "Mexican Free-Tailed" insectivorous varmints that produce a basic 5(and up) - 2(and up) - 1 guano.

This guy on Fleabay sells it for a respectable price. http://www.ebay.com/usr/frijon4?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
(Not an endorsement, just offering a potential source.)

My overwintered peppers started getting bat poop a few weeks ago and they have just about exploded. (This does coincide with the arrival or 60+ nights, so some of this is seasonal.) All are cranking out pods like mad, so I'm not at all convinced that you need to fiddle with the NPK ratios to stimulate flowering. Just feed them and get them growing, and the pods will take care of themselves.

Powelly · May 30, 2017

Geonerd said:
FWIW, I'm not convinced that N:K ratios mean much. So long as there is 'enough' of the big three, and all the micro-nutes and minerals, your plant will generally do fine. Just avoid overdosing with one nute or mineral to the point that it blocks uptake of another.

During my first year I fiddle-farted with assorted chemical ferts, with mediocre results. I'm sure these can be used with great results, but I never managed to keep the plants in the 'happy zone' for long before my container soil started to load up on salt and calcium, or got flushed to oblivion by the monsoonal rain. IMO, 'organic' or whatever you want to call it, seems much more tolerant of difficult conditions. Just schlep some on and water it in, without fretting that you're about to murder your plants.

Fish soup works well enough, but I think there is a danger of salt buildup. I've stunted about half my plants this season. Most are now growing well in fresh soil, but ... "lesson learned."

I'm REAL happy with the bat poop I can scrounge from beneath the local bridges. It seems to be damn-near a "universal" fert that contains all the goodies plants need. Look for poop from the SW - mexico, Tex, Az, etc. These are generally the "Mexican Free-Tailed" insectivorous varmints that produce a basic 5(and up) - 2(and up) - 1 guano.

This guy on Fleabay sells it for a respectable price. http://www.ebay.com/usr/frijon4?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
(Not an endorsement, just offering a potential source.)

My overwintered peppers started getting bat poop a few weeks ago and they have just about exploded. (This does coincide with the arrival or 60+ nights, so some of this is seasonal.) All are cranking out pods like mad, so I'm not at all convinced that you need to fiddle with the NPK ratios to stimulate flowering. Just feed them and get them growing, and the pods will take care of themselves.

Hi Geonerd,
I've been reading a lot lately about rock dusts and their importance in organic gardening

If you define organic gardening as "mineralization" then things start to make a lot more sense. Mineralization is the act of something organic being turned into it's elemental or mineral form

Rock dusts provide all the elements required. However they also allow microbes to attach themselves to something physical. These microbes feed by releasing enzymes which break down organic matter and then when these microbes are eaten or die the minerals that they consume are released to the soil and the plants can consume them

So when you think of organic gardening as mineralization, rock dusts increase enzyme levels in the soil massively, perhaps moreso than anything else. And more enzymes = more nutrient turnover = more nutrients available to plants

Just a thought I had today- pretty sure some parts of this are incorrect and can be expanded on by others but the general concept is true I'm sure. The NPK of rock dusts, guano, kelp etc are all pretty small but they all do something special in terms of increasing enzyme levels in the soil massively that really helps the plants