Nutrient Deficiency?

N

newbiepepperguy

http://imgur.com/a/DiAev
 
I'm starting to see the above happen to my peppers that have been transplanted into miracle gro potting soil for over a month. The peppers that have been in for 2 or 3 weeks or less are all fine and not exhibiting this behavior. Given that, I'm assuming it's not fertilizer burn or a) these peppers would have shown this before now and b) the other peppers, which are smaller, more prone to it, and are in the same potting mix would have the same issue - does that sound right?
 
If so, I think I'm dealing with a nutrient deficiency, as I haven't started feeding them yet. I didn't want to overdo it, since the potting soil had some fertilizer already in it. I obviously would need to start feeding them if it's a nutrient deficiency, but I'm not sure what kind of nutes to use based on the specific stress the leaves are showing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
At a guess... calcium.
Try some Calcium/Magnesium (calmag) spray and see how it goes.
 
They don't really look like they're lacking in nitrogen. How long have they been in that potting soil?
 
RaelThomas said:
At a guess... calcium.
Try some Calcium/Magnesium (calmag) spray and see how it goes.
 
They don't really look like they're lacking in nitrogen. How long have they been in that potting soil?
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Thanks!
 
I can't remember the exact time they were transplanted. Pretty sure it's been about 5 weeks. Over a month and less than a month and a half almost certainly. And I was obviously encouraged to see that they're happy enough to start trying to flower - I just wanted to nip this problem in the bud (pun intended).
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
Thanks!
 
I can't remember the exact time they were transplanted. Pretty sure it's been about 5 weeks. Over a month and less than a month and a half almost certainly. And I was obviously encouraged to see that they're happy enough to start trying to flower - I just wanted to nip this problem in the bud (pun intended).
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Hope it helps! They look pretty healthy apart from the curling.

We don't have MG soil here but I think it's likely still got some nutes in it. I would err on the side of caution and go slow when you start fertilising. It might say on the bag how long a supply it has.
 
RaelThomas said:
Hope it helps! They look pretty healthy apart from the curling.

We don't have MG soil here but I think it's likely still got some nutes in it. I would err on the side of caution and go slow when you start fertilising. It might say on the bag how long a supply it has.
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It's definitely helpful!
 
The bag said 3 months I think, but it's obviously not going to be true that the nutes included are equally sufficient for all different kinds of plants. I would imagine that with MG being a more general product, and tomatoes and flowers being more popular to grow, the nutes may be more tuned towards growing those, rather than peppers.
 
That said, is there some other possible cause other than a nutrient deficiency? I'm willing to admit that another cause is possible, it's just that based on how long they've been thriving in the same conditions, other possibilities seem significantly less likely. Although, I'm also fairly new to this, so I may be totally wrong about that.
 
Bhuter said:
I'm not quite sure what causes upward leaf curl, but I think I see a touch of edema. Maybe that has something to do with it. Possible overwatering??
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That's certainly possible, as these were just watered the morning before this picture. That said, it was the first watering in a week, and it was far from what I would consider a heavy watering, as I was trying to use less water, per some previous advice that my soil was too wet. Is once a week too much for plants that are trying to flower already? I'm pretty new to this, so it's very possible I have a very wrong idea of what constitutes too much water.
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
That's certainly possible, as these were just watered the morning before this picture. That said, it was the first watering in a week, and it was far from what I would consider a heavy watering, as I was trying to use less water, per some previous advice that my soil was too wet. Is once a week too much for plants that are trying to flower already? I'm pretty new to this, so it's very possible I have a very wrong idea of what constitutes too much water.
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I water mine plant by plant because I've noticed that some need to be watered more than others. If the container is light and/or if it's drooping, I water it. But I have some edema as well, so I'm watering too much. I believe once you get edema on a leaf, it doesn't go away. You just have to watch the new growth.

I'd also like to add that air circulation helps.
 
Bhuter said:
I water mine plant by plant because I've noticed that some need to be watered more than others. If the container is light and/or if it's drooping, I water it. But I have some edema as well, so I'm watering too much. I believe once you get edema on a leaf, it doesn't go away. You just have to watch the new growth.

I'd also like to add that air circulation helps.
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Thanks!
 
I do have a decent sized tower fan running on them the whole time the lights are on, so I don't think air circulation is as likely a culprit as just plain too much water.
 
Are you using a fan? Could be from too much wind, or lack of wind (not enough air exchange). A few of mine are doing the same. My fan is set a little too high. I'd rather have curled leaves than I pot full of fungus knat larvae. The fans seem to keep them at bay right not, but definitely seem to have an effect of the leaves. When I point the draft further away, they seem to go back to normal after several hours.
 
Beardedpepper said:
Are you using a fan? Could be from too much wind, or lack of wind (not enough air exchange). A few of mine are doing the same. My fan is set a little too high. I'd rather have curled leaves than I pot full of fungus knat larvae. The fans seem to keep them at bay right not, but definitely seem to have an effect of the leaves. When I point the draft further away, they seem to go back to normal after several hours.
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hmm... I'm a little doubtful that I've got too much wind. The plants are big enough to start trying to flower, so if an oscillating tower fan on medium for 3/4 of the day is too much air for them, I'd think that would cause serious issues when they have to go outside in a month - right?
 
I've purchased some Espoma garden-tone and tomato-tone. I figured, based on some above comments, that an organic, low Nitrogen, high Calcium fertilizer might do some wonders for the leaf curl, and cutting back on the water might take care of the edema. Thoughts?
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
hmm... I'm a little doubtful that I've got too much wind. The plants are big enough to start trying to flower, so if an oscillating tower fan on medium for 3/4 of the day is too much air for them, I'd think that would cause serious issues when they have to go outside in a month - right?
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Idk. Medium seems a little high. A plant in the ground or in a larger container outside is going to handle it better than one inside in a smaller container. Plus, for the most part, I would almost guarantee that the wind outside is going to be calmer and less frequent than an oscillating fan on medium for 3/4 of the day. I guess depending on where you live. Set it on low for a day or two and see what happens. 
 
Ok, I'll give that a try. I won't notice a difference for a while I'd assume? Meaning the leaves already affected won't totally rebound, but new growth will show improvement?
 
newbiepepperguy said:
I've purchased some Espoma garden-tone and tomato-tone. I figured, based on some above comments, that an organic, low Nitrogen, high Calcium fertilizer might do some wonders for the leaf curl, and cutting back on the water might take care of the edema. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 

I don't know why in the world any company ever thought that tomatoes - or any other plant, for that matter - has low nitrogen requirements.  Plants need consistent levels of nitrogen during all phases of their life cycle.  And no plant uses more P than N or K.  Sometimes more or less K is required, depending on the media.  But you REALLY don't want to underfeed Nitrogen.  If you insist on using that fertilizer, I'd use it at TWICE the recommended dosage, and let the other unbalanced elements be wasted. (which they mostly are, at any dosage)
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It's also worth nothing that with organics, if you aren't in the proper PH range, you can dump all the P in the world into the pot, but none of it will be available.  Organic P has to be broken down, and if memory serves, we're looking at target PH of about 5.5-6.5.  Otherwise, you had better have a whole lot of critters that like munching dust.
 
solid7 said:
 
I don't know why in the world any company ever thought that tomatoes - or any other plant, for that matter - has low nitrogen requirements.  Plants need consistent levels of nitrogen during all phases of their life cycle.  And no plant uses more P than N or K.  Sometimes more or less K is required, depending on the media.  But you REALLY don't want to underfeed Nitrogen.  If you insist on using that fertilizer, I'd use it at TWICE the recommended dosage, and let the other unbalanced elements be wasted. (which they mostly are, at any dosage)
.
It's also worth nothing that with organics, if you aren't in the proper PH range, you can dump all the P in the world into the pot, but none of it will be available.  Organic P has to be broken down, and if memory serves, we're looking at target PH of about 5.5-6.5.  Otherwise, you had better have a whole lot of critters that like munching dust.
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I was looking for low N because the Miracle Gro fertilizer is 24-8-16 as far as I can tell, and that, coupled with the fact that someone else commented that I have plenty of Nitrogen, made me think I could balance out better with a lower N fertilizer. And it's not so much that the N is low on the tomato-tone and garden tone - if memory serves, they're 3-4-6 and 3-4-4 - they're just *lower* N than MG is.
 
I had no idea about organics being locked out without a proper PH range. What would I need to do to balance out PH if that's an issue? If nothing can really be done, what should I use instead?
 
newbiepepperguy said:
 
I was looking for low N because the Miracle Gro fertilizer is 24-8-16 as far as I can tell, and that, coupled with the fact that someone else commented that I have plenty of Nitrogen, made me think I could balance out better with a lower N fertilizer. And it's not so much that the N is low on the tomato-tone - if memory serves, it's 3-4-4 - it's just *lower* N than MG is.
 
I had no idea about organics being locked out without a proper PH range. What would I need to do to balance out PH if that's an issue? If nothing can really be done, what should I use instead?
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It's not locked out, but organics work by producing a reaction.  Like when you mix vinegar and baking soda.  You can't break down a basic element in a basic environment.
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Whoever made that comment is wrong.  I don't personally care for MG products, but the ratio is right.  It's designed around a theoretically perfect uptake ratio, and I'd ask whoever told you that you have "plenty" of N, exactly what that means.
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You could easily double your N ratio, and still be fine.  N is one of the hardest nutrients to keep around, as it leeches, and can be robbed by decomposing matter, and locked up, until sufficient decomposition has occurred. (why you don't use uncomposted wood chips in potting media)
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I'm not sure what you think that you need to "balance out", but the best course of action right now, is to get growing...  Let the plants tell you what they need, and learn how to respond to those needs.  You're gonna need some calcium supplementation with MG, so an organic dry fertilizer might not be such a bad thing for you.
 
solid7 said:
 
It's not locked out, but organics work by producing a reaction.  Like when you mix vinegar and baking soda.  You can't break down a basic element in a basic environment.
.
Whoever made that comment is wrong.  I don't personally care for MG products, but the ratio is right.  It's designed around a theoretically perfect uptake ratio, and I'd ask whoever told you that you have "plenty" of N, exactly what that means.
.
You could easily double your N ratio, and still be fine.  N is one of the hardest nutrients to keep around, as it leeches, and can be robbed by decomposing matter, and locked up, until sufficient decomposition has occurred. (why you don't use uncomposted wood chips in potting media)
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Thanks for the info. That leads to 3 questions, if you don't mind answering:
 
1) I've got some MG plant food with the 24-8-16 ratio from last year. Should I use that instead?

2) My decision to add additional fertilizer was based on the notion that low Calcium may be causing the issue with the upward leaf curl. Is that not what I should be looking at?
 
3) Based on 1 and 2, what nutes would you recommend? Assuming I may need some Calcium or whatever I'm short on, and would like to not have to worry about organic fertilizers not breaking down.
 
solid7 said:
 
I'm not sure what you think that you need to "balance out", but the best course of action right now, is to get growing...  Let the plants tell you what they need, and learn how to respond to those needs.  You're gonna need some calcium supplementation with MG, so an organic dry fertilizer might not be such a bad thing for you.
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The "balance out" comment was from the assumption that my N level was already fine, but I may be lacking in the others.
 
The comment you have for Calcium supplementation is really what started this whole thread. My leaves are curling upward a little on some plants that seem otherwise healthy (they're nice and green, and trying to flower), and I've had a couple people tell me I may need some Calcium. The Espoma fertilizers I found have 8% added Calcium, and I thought that, combined with a balance of NPK, might be the easiest way to leave the MG ratio close to as is, but add the benefit of Calcium for the leaf curl. Sorry if that sounds like ridiculous newbie thing to do. I could be way off, and if so, please let me know.
 
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