Off limit varieties???

Ben1287 said:
I purchased Carolina Reaper seeds from PuckerButt as well. I ordered one packet of those seeds, and 3 other varieties. I got the four packets I ordered AND 2 extra packets of Carolina Reaper seeds! Ed seems like a good guy and his business practices (from what I've seen) reflect that. I also think the reaper gave him all the fame he needs to be successful for quite some time. If I do use the reaper to my advantage it will be to produce crosses that benefit from its unique qualities. aka it will be at least 5 years before I have anything to share anyway.
 
Kind of mirroring what Magicpepper said, I think there is risk involved in the business of creating new strains and people know that no matter how good your chances are there is always the very real possibility that someone will beat you to it. For now I'm just doing it for fun. 
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hey lucky you, i ordered just the reaper seeds and instead of 10 i got 6, and only 2 germinated, i sent off an email and they are sending me 10 more seeds. but i cant start seeds now because september is pretty much the end of my season. anyway you want a really good deal on seeds check out pepperlover.com, for every 1 you buy, you get 1 free, so yes you buy 40 types she will send you 40 free. and it will be a combination of seeds and powders. not bad if you ask me
 
magicpepper said:
 
hey lucky you, i ordered just the reaper seeds and instead of 10 i got 6, and only 2 germinated, i sent off an email and they are sending me 10 more seeds. but i cant start seeds now because september is pretty much the end of my season. anyway you want a really good deal on seeds check out pepperlover.com, for every 1 you buy, you get 1 free, so yes you buy 40 types she will send you 40 free. and it will be a combination of seeds and powders. not bad if you ask me
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Bummer about the low count. I'm just starting some now myself. I'm going to prune off any buds that show up to keep them growing until I bring them inside in the fall. That way I'll have decent size grow-outs to put out next spring.
 
thanks, they are fixing the issue so i cant complain, and i havent said anything bad about puckerbutt either, my experience is mine alone, and no need to bash some one for a simple mistake.
 
anyway thats a good idea, personally i am letting mine do their own thing, i like to leave them be and let mother nature do its work, im not going to manipulate any of my plants, all though i did "top" a couple just to see what would happen. they were young, but i dont have anything to compare them to so im not sure how it actually turned out lol.  ill bring some of my plants in for the winter, but i have 8 other varieties sitting here burning holes in their packages and screaming my name lol so i am going to get them started this winter lol
 
It will be interesting to see whether I will get pods this year from the Reaper plant I bought as a plug late in May. I'm guessing not, but if I do, it should allow me to see if it is a genuine Reaper plant. It too was not purchased from Puckerbutt or Pepper Joe.
 
Bigwelshprop said:
It will be interesting to see whether I will get pods this year from the Reaper plant I bought as a plug late in May. I'm guessing not, but if I do, it should allow me to see if it is a genuine Reaper plant. It too was not purchased from Puckerbutt or Pepper Joe.
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you never know, you just might get a pod or two, i wish you the best of luck with it. and hope it grows true.
i have read a lot of people do not get the classic reaper pod shape, but it is a reaper in every other aspect.  id love to see how your plant does and what the pods look like if and when you get some
 
What is a plant patent?
A plant patent is granted by the Government to an inventor (or the inventor's heirs or assigns) who has invented or discovered and asexually reproduced a distinct and new variety of plant, other than a tuber propagated plant or a plant found in an uncultivated state. The grant, which lasts for 20 years from the date of filing the application, protects the inventor's right to exclude others from asexually reproducing, selling, or using the plant so reproduced. This protection is limited to a plant in its ordinary meaning:
  • A living plant organism which expresses a set of characteristics determined by its single, genetic makeup or genotype, which can be duplicated through asexual reproduction, but which can not otherwise be "made" or "manufactured."
  • Sports, mutants, hybrids, and transformed plants are comprehended; sports or mutants may be spontaneous or induced. Hybrids may be natural, from a planned breeding program, or somatic in source. While natural plant mutants might have naturally occurred, they must have been discovered in a cultivated area.
  • Algae and macro fungi are regarded as plants, but bacteria are not
 
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/plant/
 
Here's the kicker: 
 
 
mx5inpa said:
What is a plant patent?
A plant patent is granted by the Government to an inventor (or the inventor's heirs or assigns) who has invented or discovered and asexually reproduced a distinct and new variety of plant,...
 
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/plant/
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Most crosses and new peppers are produced sexually, no? Transfer of pollen and all that jazz?
 
I don't think the plant patent covers cross fertilization, whether intentional or not.
 
I don't sell pods or seeds, but I do try to respect the creators' hard work.
 
Grant of a patent for a plant precludes others from asexually reproducing or selling or using the patented plant.
 
35 U.S.C. 161   Patents for plants.
Whoever invents or discovers and asexually reproduces any distinct and new variety of plant, including cultivated sports, mutants, hybrids, and newly found seedlings, other than a tuber propagated plant or a plant found in an uncultivated state, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title.
The provisions of this title relating to patents for inventions shall apply to patents for plants, except as otherwise provided.

Asexually propagated plants are those that are reproduced by means other than from seeds, such as by the rooting of cuttings, by layering, budding, grafting, inarching, etc. Plants capable of sexual reproduction are not excluded from consideration if they have also been asexually reproduced.
 
Plants capable of sexual reproduction are not excluded from consideration if they have also been asexually reproduced.
 
Asexual reproduction is key. Sexual reproduction would be impossible to patent, much less regulate.
 
What would stop someone from isolating two plants together, each one a different variety, turning on a fan, planting the seeds from the fruits, and when something odd pops up, they say "look what I have invented!"
 
No, you didn't invent anything. You got a cross breed.
 
Doesnt sound like it means much.
 
 
Pretty easy to take some cuttings and root them to satisfy the law.
 
so from what i am getting from this is if lets say ed currie has not done this, i can get a reaper seed, allow it to grow, then take a clipping and get that rooted and allow it to grow thus producing an asexually reproduced breed of that pepper and claim it as my own, because he has not done this??  maybe i am not fully understanding this but thats what i am getting
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeders%27_rights

Buzz said:
Plants capable of sexual reproduction are not excluded from consideration if they have also been asexually reproduced.
 
Asexual reproduction is key. Sexual reproduction would be impossible to patent, much less regulate.
 
What would stop someone from isolating two plants together, each one a different variety, turning on a fan, planting the seeds from the fruits, and when something odd pops up, they say "look what I have invented!"
 
No, you didn't invent anything. You got a cross breed.
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35 U.S.C. 161 originated as an amendment to the pre-existing patent statute with the Plant Patent Act of 1930. As enacted, the “invents or discovers” requirement limited patent protection to plants “that were created as a result of plant breeding or other agricultural and horticultural efforts and that were created by the inventor.” In re Beineke, 690 F.3d 1344, 1352, 103 USPQ2d 1872, 1877 (Fed. Cir. 2012). The plant patent provisions were separated from the utility patent provisions in the Patent Act of 1952 to create 35 U.S.C. 161. Id. at 1348 n.2, 103 USPQ2d 1875 n.2. 35 U.S.C. 161 was amended in 1954 to extend protection to “newly found seedlings,” provided they were found in a cultivated state, but did not otherwise alter the scope of plant patent protection.

.......................
 
Buzz,
 
If Ed hadnt released the seed and instead cloned his first reaper then patented and planted his field or whatever with clones and then sold the peppers  I think the seeds would be covered by the patent.
 
I think you're placing too much emphasis on the asexual reproduction part. There are plenty of ways to incorporate asexual reproduction into a grow operation using sexually reproductive plants.
 
magicpepper said:
so from what i am getting from this is if lets say ed currie has not done this, i can get a reaper seed, allow it to grow, then take a clipping and get that rooted and allow it to grow thus producing an asexually reproduced breed of that pepper and claim it as my own, because he has not done this??  maybe i am not fully understanding this but thats what i am getting
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No because there is a one year limit once the plant is out in the public.
 
I hear ya. I'm just looking at the text of code.... I just figured the word is in there with a purpose.
 
"As enacted, the “invents or discovers” requirement limited patent protection to plants “that were created as a result of plant breeding or other agricultural and horticultural efforts and that were created by the inventor.” ........ The plant patent provisions were separated from the utility patent provisions in the Patent Act of 1952 to create 35 U.S.C. 161. Id. at 1348 n.2, 103 USPQ2d 1875 n.2. 35 U.S.C. 161 was amended in 1954 to extend protection to “newly found seedlings,” provided they were found in a cultivated state..."
 
That one says it more clearly.
 
So originally, there was very little patenting rights for cross bred plants. But the amendment gave limited protections to cross breed, or "newly found seedlings,” but only after interference by man, not in nature.
 
I still think it's quite a reach to patent a cross, but hey..... more power to 'em, I guess.
 
Well there are lots of 3 way crosses (or more) that take a lot of time to discover and stabilize etc. I think the Sungold tomato is one and it is delicious.
 
I dont think it's too much of a stretch to patent plants. But the time limits and extensions for both patents and copyrights have gotten ridiculous. I say 14 years is all any 'inventor' needs.  Otherwise youre just stifling innovation.
 
I do agree with that. I also agree that people should respect those creations. I do realize a lot of work goes into creating and stabilizing the crosses. But I also understand that it can happen as much by accident as it does intentionally, and I think that's where the letter of the law has to be intentionally vague.

And from what I understand, big pharma does that all the time. There's a 7 year patent on new drugs before generics can be made... so at the 7 year mark, they change one tiny thing and call it new and extend it another 7 years to stifle cheaper generics.
 
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