Old Leaves - Compost?

Helldozer

Helldozer

Howdy.
 
Question. I was raking up some leaves from under a tree the other day, and noticed how rich the layers looked. Underneath the top layer of leaves, were fine grounds (much like coffee grounds) of leaves. The leaves have probably been there for well over 2 to 3 years...or more. Can I use the fine material as compost? OR should I use it to amend my clay soil? OR, should I not use it at all?
 
This leads to another question. I'm going to be planting melons. I have clay soil that I amended last year with a few inches of compost/humus from the city. However, it wasn't good enough to grow in last year. Most of my plants stalled and didn't produced many peppers, if any at all. This year, I'm growing all of my peppers in containers. However, from what I've gathered, melons need a lot of room and mounds/hills are the way to go. I think I need about a 2 ft. diameter hill, about 12 inches high. Which means I would have to dig down a few inches and amend the soil again, because melons need a lot of nitrogen. I don't want to spend any more money on my garden. So, I was wondering if I could use the leaves, as mentioned above, to amend the soil. Or would I need to add more than that?
 
Thanks!
 
yeah leaves are good to mix into the soil and/or for compost (when you mix them into soil they are just naturally composting so its the same thing..)
 
At my previous residence, I would drop a thick layer of raked leaves and lawn clippings on top the garden beds in the fall. The rain in Portland would adhere them to the top of the soil. This stopped almost all weeds. By spring, the leaves/grass would be quite decomposed and I'd turn them into to the soil before planting. I'd add some other stuff but the veggies always did quite well in those beds. It was also a convenient spot to dump quite bit of leaves and grass!
 
Yes the fine leaf grounds are ready to benefit your soil, and the larger leaf pieces can be mixed into the soil but won't provide much benefit for several months until they decompose more, so do go ahead and use them but don't expect an immediate benefit from them.  Amending high clay soil with little to no cost is a long term project.
 
You can also use lawn clippings and just about any other old plant matter, bark, etc.  Just be sure it is sufficiently tilled down into the soil as any remaining at the soil surface may promote fungal growth.  How much material you need to add depends on present soil state.  If the soil compacts down instead of remaining fluffy then ideally more compost should be added.
 
You wrote that you would have to dig down two inches and amend the soil again, but aren't you already doing more than that?  Shortly before seeding or transplanting the whole area should be tilled to more than 2" deep either way, especially because it is high clay soil.
 
^  That video brings up an issue I'd had to deal with.  I've practically destroyed two leaf blowers  using them to mulch leaves.  They barely get dirty in blower mode but in mulching mode they get leaf dust in EVERYWHERE.  It doesn't just slowly clog the air passage but on gas blowers also permeates the air filter, clogs the cylinder cooling fins, even gums up the pull cord mechanism to the point where it can get hard to start and wear out the cord if you keep pulling harder instead of a complete strip down and cleaning every couple  years.  The debris also wears the impeller so air volume decreases and wears ruts under it so future debris builds up faster.
 
IMO, you're better off letting nature do its thing without the extra labor or expense from using a hand held tool to mulch.
 
The argument in the video that the leaves need shredded because they smother the ground is not valid if you are gathering them up, and especially not if then tilling them into the soil rather than leaving them sit in a pile for any longer than it takes to clear that area of the garden when your fall crops are finished.  Plus, an above ground pile of damp leaves is a fungus factory that leaves plenty of spores in the area, spores that contribute to crop mold when it's damp next spring. 
 
I'm not suggesting there's no downside to tilling it in at end of fall instead of mulching, as obviously there is the tilling itself to do.  At that time you can also till in the plant remains of that fall's crop right where it is, instead of throwing it out in the trash or hauling it over to a compost bin then back to the garden plot.  Further with woody plants like pepper stems, they won't decompose in a compost pile over only one winter, rather needing a year or more buried or constantly turned and watered if left above ground.  On the other hand, you would ideally still have a compost pile for other material you can't *harvest* all at once like raking leaves, things like coffee grounds or other waste where you might accumulate a supply little by little over time.  You might as well till that in during fall too but could end up with more of it between then and the start of your spring crop.
 
I suppose my point is there are several ways to do composting and soil amendments but be aware of people who say one thing is wrong and another is right if they don't mention the down-sides of their methods as well as the benefits.  If someone says "don't do this" and yet others have success doing whatever it is, then there's more to it than they're addressing.
 
Dave2000 said:
^  That video brings up an issue I'd had to deal with.  I've practically destroyed two leaf blowers  using them to mulch leaves.  They barely get dirty in blower mode but in mulching mode they get leaf dust in EVERYWHERE.  It doesn't just slowly clog the air passage but on gas blowers also permeates the air filter, clogs the cylinder cooling fins, even gums up the pull cord mechanism to the point where it can get hard to start and wear out the cord if you keep pulling harder instead of a complete strip down and cleaning every couple  years.  The debris also wears the impeller so air volume decreases and wears ruts under it so future debris builds up faster.
 
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Good point. My electric blower also blows in leaf mulch mode. The leaves have to be small, light and dry or it takes forever to pick them up. Rake and shovel is much more efficient. My advice is to mow leaves where possible with the catch on. I have a fairly cheap lawn mower (Yard Machines 650cc), but it does a great job vacuuming up leaves, pine needles, etc. I often use it in the fall just for that purpose. It also blends them up quite nice and is easy to deposit in the desired spot - in my case, right on top of the garden beds. Much easier than the leaf blower extension. There's a reason those things sit in the garage.
 
Dave2000,
 
Those are great points also. I suppose I could also use my mower to mulch the leaves, as an alternative. Half of the pile of leaves that I have were decomposing underneath the newer layer of leaves. Can I take the entire pile, or half of the pile and till it now? I need to make a few "hills" for melons I want to try and plant in a few weeks, and I was hoping I could use this pile to amend the clay soil. 
 
Thanks!
 
I have so many leaves in my yard right now. Like three years worth stacked ... I can't wait to see what lies beneath! I'll post some pictures when I get to it.
 
Helldozer said:
Dave2000,
 
Those are great points also. I suppose I could also use my mower to mulch the leaves, as an alternative. Half of the pile of leaves that I have were decomposing underneath the newer layer of leaves. Can I take the entire pile, or half of the pile and till it now? I need to make a few "hills" for melons I want to try and plant in a few weeks, and I was hoping I could use this pile to amend the clay soil. 
 
Thanks!
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Damp decomposing leaves tend to clog up mowers.  I'd rake the top off, gather up the wet and decomposing leaves and toss those on the garden plot, then (I would just apply them whole but if you really want to mulch them anyway...) mow the dry leaves and gather as much of those as you can for the plot, then go ahead and till as much as you can into the soil now.  There's no reason to do only half now and wait to till the rest in, unless that's all you have time to do at the moment.  Also note that once leaves are mulched/mowed/etc, they are more of a chore to try to rake or otherwise gather... again more work and probably fewer leaves end up in the garden plot due to remaining in the lawn, but that's good for the lawn.
 
Also note that if using an electric or gas tiller, that's going to chop up the leaves while it is tilling them in.  It won't be as finely chopped as a mulcher or mower would make them, and I still feel it isn't necessary to mulch them, but a powered tiller will do that a lot more than a shovel and manual labor would.
 
One thing not mentioned in the video is using the shredded leaves as mulch between vegetable rows.  Keeps the weeds down, the moisture in, and cools the soil during the hot days of summer.
 
For our Community Garden, we gather lots of bags of leaves in the Fall, till in about 25 bags in the whole 50'x90' garden, dig trenches ~1'x10' and dump in the many buckets of summer garden waste along with shredded leaves, then cover with soil. 
 
We have a leaf shredder and use it for our own trees.  The bags of 'gathered' leaves stay on the garden during the winter.  We tried the tomato cage collection, but our winds have blown the leaves to another county.  It's better for us to keep the leaves in bags so we can use them in the spring and summer.
 
Great video, though.  At least we're doing something right for the soil.
 
ikeepfish said:
You mentioned clay, leaf litter compost is great as a claybreaker too.  Just my 2 cents.
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Thanks! Good to know. I added about 3 cubic yards of compost/humus from the city last year, and my plants didn't do well at all. First time planting in the ground. I'm in pots now, except for the melons I will be planting. So, that's great to know. 
 
Helldozer said:
 
Thanks! Good to know. I added about 3 cubic yards of compost/humus from the city last year, and my plants didn't do well at all. First time planting in the ground. I'm in pots now, except for the melons I will be planting. So, that's great to know. 
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If you go to a hardware store and buy bagged "Claybreaker" ...open it up and look...dang I just paid X dollars for composted leaves.
 
ColdSmoke said:
I have so many leaves in my yard right now. Like three years worth stacked ... I can't wait to see what lies beneath! I'll post some pictures when I get to it.
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Compost them and next season you can use them in place of peat moss for a homemade soil mix. :cool:
Helldozer said:
 
Thanks! Good to know. I added about 3 cubic yards of compost/humus from the city last year, and my plants didn't do well at all. First time planting in the ground. I'm in pots now, except for the melons I will be planting. So, that's great to know. 
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The problem with city compost is that it contains lots of paper which introduces large amounts of lignin that needs to be broken down.
 
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