seeds Organically Grown Peppers = Organic Seeds?

A

askbjo

I have been looking around the internet for quite a while, and this question has bothered me for quite a bit. 
 
We recently bought us in on an organic farm, certified organic, which means there has to be no pesticides, chemical fertilizers  etc. for the last 7 years, pluss a whole lot more on soil maintainence and such. The seeds they sow, are also organic.
 
The question is; if i buy regular seeds from the store, grow the plants organically, without pesticides and different chemicals, would my seeds from my organically grown peppers be organic? 
 
My guess is no, but maybe some of you know anything about the rules on this topic? Maybe i have to grow my peppers organically for x generations or something like that (which actually would make some sort of sense).
 
Thanks in advance:)
 
AB
 
 
askbjo said:
 
 
We recently bought us in on an organic farm, certified organic, which means there has to be no pesticides, chemical fertilizers  etc. for the last 7 years,
 
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I think you answered that question already for yourself.
 
CAPCOM said:
I think you answered that question already for yourself.
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but the seeds they sow are already organic, and mine are not...
 
So the question is actually if regular/non-organic seeds will ever become organic through organic groing :D
 
I would think the seeds from an organically grown plant would become organic seeds but I'm no expert on the topic by any means
 
I'd say contact your department of agriculture or OMRI (or equivalent  for your area) they should have the answers you're looking for. My thinking is, there are plenty of seed suppliers that grow organic and call their seeds organic, no matter original origin, though not OMRI certified. I could be wrong though.
 
If you are producing these peppers commercially, to be labeled as USDA certified organic, then you must use certified organic seeds, unless there are no commercial sources for the seed variety in question (in which case, any untreated, non-GMO seeds are acceptable, though it must be proven that there are no organic alternatives available). That exception is carved out because there is a lack of availability of certified organic seeds of certain varieties. However, in the case of peppers, I think there are organic options available, so the short answer is, no, they would not be certified organic. 
 
Source: my step-dad is an organic farmer and former organic certifier. Also: http://seedalliance.org/top_menu_header/faq#organicseed
 
heathotsauce said:
If you are producing these peppers commercially, to be labeled as USDA certified organic, then you must use certified organic seeds, unless there are no commercial sources for the seed variety in question (in which case, any untreated, non-GMO seeds are acceptable, though it must be proven that there are no organic alternatives available). That exception is carved out because there is a lack of availability of certified organic seeds of certain varieties. However, in the case of peppers, I think there are organic options available, so the short answer is, no, they would not be certified organic. 
 
Source: my step-dad is an organic farmer and former organic certifier. Also: http://seedalliance.org/top_menu_header/faq#organicseed
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He is in Norway, I think USDA certification would be a real pain in the ass for what ever reason.
 
CAPCOM said:
He is in Norway, I think USDA certification would be a real pain in the ass for what ever reason.
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Haha, you are correct, I didn't realize OP was in Norway. No need to worry about USDA then, this website might have relevant info: http://www.debio.no/information-in-english
 
I think that you'd probably be fine using conventional seed. The one advantage of using organic seed is you are getting plants that are adapted to that way of farming, so they might do slightly better. But really, I don't think it's a big deal either way.
 
hogleg said:
I'd say contact your department of agriculture or OMRI (or equivalent  for your area) they should have the answers you're looking for. My thinking is, there are plenty of seed suppliers that grow organic and call their seeds organic, no matter original origin, though not OMRI certified. I could be wrong though.
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OMRI certification is a joke though. There are lots of things that are really not organic and they are still "OMRI listed."
 
Wow, thank you guys for a lot of useful information! I really appreciate it!!
 
I would never take the step to be certified organic, since this is just a hobby of mine. I thought it would be informative to know how this works, the rules on true organic agriculture is quite vast, and a lot to wrap your head around. 
 
It does make sense, that although you grow organically for x generations, the plant not the seeds would not be organic, but organically grown. 
 
Again, thank you all for all the information! Greatly appreciated!
 
Cheers,
AB
 
hogleg said:
 
So is the term Organic for that matter.
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In Norway, the government is really strict when it comes to food, and its sources. We are not allowed to import GMOs, and even if a product contains 0,3% of GMO (soybeans, corn etc) it has to be labeled, and then people dont buy it, and they stop using GMOs.  Same for Organic, which is sort of like a trademark, and if it says organic here in norway, it actually is. 
 
But yes, the term organic has been abused, and it is hard to know if it really is organic or not, and I guess we will never really know for sure, unless we grow it ourselves :D
 
askbjo said:
 
but the seeds they sow are already organic, and mine are not...
 
So the question is actually if regular/non-organic seeds will ever become organic through organic groing :D
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This farm you bought seed from. That had to certify for 7 years specific requirements. what seed did they start from? That is square one for you.
 
CAPCOM said:
This farm you bought seed from. That had to certify for 7 years specific requirements. what seed did they start from? That is square one for you.
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Thats a start for sure. But I'm sure they started with already certified seeds. The seeds I bought are not from that farm; thats why I was wondering if i could sort of "make" my seeds organic through organic growing. 
 
Its interesting, because it seems like regular seed will never become organic, although you follow all the rules. But the seeds have to come from somewhere, right, the organic ones I mean. Are they picked deep inside the forrest where no man has ever been? I guess not :D 
 
hogleg said:
 
So is the term Organic for that matter.
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That is becoming truer and truer, but at least it is pretty well regulated, and clearly defined. Sure, there are ingredients like Carrageenan that are allowed that are controversial, but it sure is more meaningful than the "natural" label, which is utterly useless in most cases ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
askbjo said:
Thats a start for sure. But I'm sure they started with already certified seeds. The seeds I bought are not from that farm; thats why I was wondering if i could sort of "make" my seeds organic through organic growing. 
 
Its interesting, because it seems like regular seed will never become organic, although you follow all the rules. But the seeds have to come from somewhere, right, the organic ones I mean. Are they picked deep inside the forrest where no man has ever been? I guess not :D
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Well, all seeds were basically organic before the 1950s  :P
 
I think that the 3 year transition period from conventional to organic would apply to seeds too. But starting with GMO seeds, they would never be technically organic- not a problem with peppers though, because there are no commercially available genetically modified pepper varieties.
 
heathotsauce said:
 
That is becoming truer and truer, but at least it is pretty well regulated, and clearly defined. Sure, there are ingredients like Carrageenan that are allowed that are controversial, but it sure is more meaningful than the "natural" label, which is utterly useless in most cases ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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100% off topic. sorry for the highjack, OP.
 
I need to get over to Bazerkley n' check y'all out. Your shop looks very exciting.  :hell:
 
hogleg said:
 
100% off topic. sorry for the highjack, OP.
 
I need to get over to Bazerkley n' check y'all out. Your shop looks very exciting.  :hell:
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That'd be awesome, definitely come make full use of the tasting bar and we can talk hot sauce!  :dance:
 
heathotsauce said:
 
That is becoming truer and truer, but at least it is pretty well regulated, and clearly defined. Sure, there are ingredients like Carrageenan that are allowed that are controversial, but it sure is more meaningful than the "natural" label, which is utterly useless in most cases ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 
Well, all seeds were basically organic before the 1950s  :P
 
I think that the 3 year transition period from conventional to organic would apply to seeds too. But starting with GMO seeds, they would never be technically organic- not a problem with peppers though, because there are no commercially available genetically modified pepper varieties.
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Doesn't monsanto have their own line of peppers? Pretty sure there's quite a few GMO ones and a pretty heated thread somewhere around here related to the topic
 
D3monic said:
 
Doesn't monsanto have their own line of peppers? Pretty sure there's quite a few GMO ones and a pretty heated thread somewhere around here related to the topic
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There have been trials in the US but none are approved right now, but there are probably GM chilies growing in China. There was some controversy a few years ago in New Mexico about the NMSU Chile Pepper Institute getting funding to do GMO research, but at this point they don't sell any GM seeds.
 
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