organic Organics 101

Phil said:
 
I don't know about BSFL or worm composting, but here's all you need:
 
1. Buy a large, contractor/heavy duty outdoor garbage can and cut the bottom off. Now flip it upside down so the wider part is on the ground and the cut bottom faces up. Drill some 1/2" vent holes up and down the sides.
2. start filling it with grass clippings, eggs shells, coffee grounds, veggie scraps, dead/dry (or green) leaves. All of your dead or trimmed plant matter, too.
3. Once it's full, let it sit a week (or two)
4. lift the can off of the pile and move the empty can next to the pile. Then with a pitchfork, start shoveling the pile into the empty can, top of the pile goes in first, thus turning the pile.... do this once a week or once every other week. You'll see it start to break down.
 
Be careful, also, because the decomposing matter creates heat... and if you have a large pile, it makes LOTS of heat. Smaller bins will not make enough heat to melt the plastic or keep out the ants, so be careful there, too. Ants won't settle there if you keep turning it regularly, though.
 
Eventually, it will all break down, and you can keep adding organic matter as it decomposes. You'll start to see LOTS of worms at the bottom of the pile. That's when you'll know it's on its way. Eventually, it will all break down into good, nutrient rich soil perfect for growing medium.

I had one of these given to me awhile back, but I no longer have it.
 
http://www.hayneedle.com/product/eco115cubicfeetcompostbin.cfm?redirect=false&srccode=cii_23393768&cpncode=45-56596476-2&source=channel_intelligence_amazon_hayneedle
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Wow, pretty pricey.
Is plastic better than wood? I have seen wood bins you build in the yard and that has one side that comes off to empty out when full.
 
CAPCOM said:
Wow, pretty pricey.
Is plastic better than wood? I have seen wood bins you build in the yard and that has one side that comes off to empty out when full.
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Yeah, that's why I recommended the garbage can instead. Or there's always chicken wire in a wood frame
 
CAPCOM said:
 Do these need to be composted in a bin type system of can this be accomplished, On the ground?
 
 
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     I do it both ways. I have a "bin" that I made out of four T-posts arranged in a roughly 3' x 4' rectangle. I wrapped heavy duty hardware cloth on three sides so that one of the 3' sides is open for access. I use this bin to store kitchen scraps and lawn clippings during the summer months. In fall, I empty the bin in my main garden and mix the contents with all the leaves I can collect and shred from my and my neighbor's lawns. I also add blood meal and Tomato-Tone (organic N-rich ferts) to compensate for an abundance of  brown matter (leaves). 
     This heap gets watered as needed and turned every two weeks or so until it starts to take off (temps above 120F or so). Once the temp starts getting into the 140-160F range, I turn it every couple of days so it can get all the O2 it needs to keep the "fire" lit.
     Once the temps drop back down around ambient, I consider it done regardless of how it looks. It always seems to have larger pieces of brown matter left, like pieces of leaves and stuff. I figure all that heat pretty much makes it safe to use, even if it doesn't "look" done. I have never had problems with soil-borne pathogens or weeds.
     Each year I dump about 400 lbs of this stuff on each of my (4' x 8') raised beds and I don't know how much on my main garden. I don't till it into the raised beds - I just keep layering it on and let the worms work it in and aerate the soil underneath at the same time. 
     During winter, I use the bin to store shredded leaves only. By spring, I have about a cubic yard of awesome leaf mold to use for mulch all summer long.
     The plants I grew from the seeds you gave me f**king love my compost! I'll get some pics of them up in my glog as soon as the rain stops here.
 
Phil said:
 
 
1. Buy a large, contractor/heavy duty outdoor garbage can and cut the bottom off. Now flip it upside down so the wider part is on the ground and the cut bottom faces up. Drill some 1/2" vent holes up and down the sides.
2. start filling it with grass clippings, eggs shells, coffee grounds, veggie scraps, dead/dry (or green) leaves. All of your dead or trimmed plant matter, too.
3. Once it's full, let it sit a week (or two)
4. lift the can off of the pile and move the empty can next to the pile. Then with a pitchfork, start shoveling the pile into the empty can, top of the pile goes in first, thus turning the pile.... do this once a week or once every other week. You'll see it start to break down.
 
 
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     This ^ is a great idea! It conceals the pile and makes it super easy to turn and aerate. My bin is kind of a pain in the butt sometimes, but I like the room.
 
I have a composting question. Say you have 200s/f of raised beds, 12" deep. How large will your compost bin need to be, so that by the time the leaves...grass... break down and are useable, you will have enough compost for the entire 200s?
 
Roguejim said:
I have a composting question. Say you have 200s/f of raised beds, 12" deep. How large will your compost bin need to be, so that by the time the leaves...grass... break down and are useable, you will have enough compost for the entire 200s?
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It would have to be enormous.  The volume of finished compost is only a fraction of the size of the uncomposted materials.
Assuming 75% volume reduction you would need an 800 cubic feet composting area ~ 9ft x 9ft x 10ft!
Someone else chime in if you can estimate more accurately the volume reduction for finished compost, Im sure it also depends on the starting materials though...
 
pepper_rancher said:
It would have to be enormous.  The volume of finished compost is only a fraction of the size of the uncomposted materials.
Assuming 75% volume reduction you would need an 800 cubic feet composting area ~ 9ft x 9ft x 10ft!
Someone else chime in if you can estimate more accurately the volume reduction for finished compost, Im sure it also depends on the starting materials though...
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I probably wasn't very clear with my question. My thought would be to add compost to my already established raised beds, maybe 4-5 weeks prior to plant out, working the compost into the top 4-5", not to fill the beds from the bottom up. Frankly, I'm a bit confused about the payoff to going to the time and trouble of making compost, if I would still have to add other soil amendments, and/or fertilize during the growing season, anyway. I'm just throwing these questions out there for myself.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
No thanks I am done with pepper growing and this forum. Good luck though.
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My apologies to the forum.
I have been an asshole at times and that is to my shame.
I need to stay out of the forums when I am in a bad mood obviously and that has been a lot of the time lately.
 
Roguejim said:
I probably wasn't very clear with my question. My thought would be to add compost to my already established raised beds, maybe 4-5 weeks prior to plant out, working the compost into the top 4-5", not to fill the beds from the bottom up. Frankly, I'm a bit confused about the payoff to going to the time and trouble of making compost, if I would still have to add other soil amendments, and/or fertilize during the growing season, anyway. I'm just throwing these questions out there for myself.
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     Make as much as you can. I add roughly six 30 gallon garbage cans full of compost to each of my beds each year. I could certainly get away with adding less, and more would probably only make things better.
     Don't confuse compost with fertilizer. It is primarily a means of supplementing your soil with organic matter and inoculating with microbes, worms and other invertebrates. Compost provides soil organisms with food and habitat. These soil organisms prevent compaction, aerate soil, build soil structure and promote nutrient cycling by maintaining a healthy soil food web. 
     When compost breaks down further in your soil, its end products include chemicals like humins and fulvins which allow soil to chemically bind nutrients and prevent them from leaching out, while still making them available to plants (and other soil inhabitants). 
 
Hybrid Mode 01 said:
Make as much as you can. I add roughly six 30 gallon garbage cans full of compost to each of my beds each year. I could certainly get away with adding less, and more would probably only make things better.
     Don't confuse compost with fertilizer. It is primarily a means of supplementing your soil with organic matter and inoculating with microbes, worms and other invertebrates. Compost provides soil organisms with food and habitat. These soil organisms prevent compaction, aerate soil, build soil structure and promote nutrient cycling by maintaining a healthy soil food web. 
     When compost breaks down further in your soil, its end products include chemicals like humins and fulvins which allow soil to chemically bind nutrients and prevent them from leaching out, while still making them available to plants (and other soil inhabitants).
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Thanks for the explanation. Let me ask this, now. I can buy a truckload of fresh dairy cow manure from an organic dairy for $10, work it into my raised beds in the Fall, cover it with mulch at the same, and I will have an abundance of red wigglers in Spring. I don't know what else it may do for the soil or microbes. Where does it fall short of compost, if in fact, it does?
 
Roguejim said:
Thanks for the explanation. Let me ask this, now. I can buy a truckload of fresh dairy cow manure from an organic dairy for $10, work it into my raised beds in the Fall, cover it with mulch at the same, and I will have an abundance of red wigglers in Spring. I don't know what else it may do for the soil or microbes. Where does it fall short of compost, if in fact, it does?
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That's perfect my friend! Manure is the most important ingredient in a compost pile according to the Rodale Book of Composting that I am reading.
The only thing better would be chicken manure or the best of all rabbit manure.
HB01 gave some great advice as well and I agree with him 110% on the , "make as much as you can" statement he made.
I couldn't make compost fast enough this season as I want to ammend the entire yard and that takes a lot of compost.
I was going to buy some more from the supplier across the bay but they are out until June sometime.
It's really good stuff called, "Diestel Structured Compost" and the people that make it have an organic free-range turkey farm and the compost they sell it supposed to be teeming with beneficial bacteria.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
That's perfect my friend! Manure is the most important ingredient in a compost pile according to the Rodale Book of Composting that I am reading.
The only thing better would be chicken manure or the best of all rabbit manure.
HB01 gave some great advice as well and I agree with him 110% on the , "make as much as you can" statement he made.
I couldn't make compost fast enough this season as I want to ammend the entire yard and that takes a lot of compost.
I was going to buy some more from the supplier across the bay but they are out until June sometime.
It's really good stuff called, "Diestel Structured Compost" and the people that make it have an organic free-range turkey farm and the compost they sell it supposed to be teeming with beneficial bacteria.
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I can get bags of organic, composted chicken manure, no problem. But, it just seems that the fresh cow manure really produces the worms. Actually, I was also thinking of pulling back the mulch 3-4 weeks prior to plant out in Spring, and working in some rabbit manure. I wonder if I would still have calcium deficiency problems with all the cow and rabbit manure.
 
Roguejim said:
I can get bags of organic, composted chicken manure, no problem. But, it just seems that the fresh cow manure really produces the worms. Actually, I was also thinking of pulling back the mulch 3-4 weeks prior to plant out in Spring, and working in some rabbit manure. I wonder if I would still have calcium deficiency problems with all the cow and rabbit manure.
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I would think you would have no problems with all of that good manure.
 
I'd be careful with cow or horse manure.... both are GREAT additions, but my mom got a crappy (pun intended) batch of horse manure that wasn't composted before use this year, and now all of her potted plants have a thick bed of grass in them.... the seeds in the poop were still viable. Just make sure it's composted manure.
 
Here's a little trick I've been doing for the past couple of years to help renew/enrich seemingly spent soil in my pots, since I tend to reuse soil every year due to cost:
 
At the end of the season, I take all of the plants I don't intend to overwinter and cut them all the way down to the soil, then just leave the root ball in and walk away. Let them stay outside and die off. Over time, the roots will start to break down and rot in the soil. Come next growing season, I usually just have to pull the dead stump with a slight yank and everything under it is rotted/composted back into the soil. If you dump the soil out, you'll see worms in the bottom (they find their way there). Kinda like mini compost bins for individual growing! I still supplement with nutes, but it seems to work well every year.
 
Phil said:
I'd be careful with cow or horse manure.... both are GREAT additions, but my mom got a crappy (pun intended) batch of horse manure that wasn't composted before use this year, and now all of her potted plants have a thick bed of grass in them.... the seeds in the poop were still viable. Just make sure it's composted manure.
 
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I have read that is because horses do not have the digestive system to kill the seeds they injest.
Cows on the other hand do and as well the ability to break down the lignins (woody substances) in the things they eat.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
I have read that is because horses do not have the digestive system to kill the seeds they injest.
Cows on the other hand do and as well the ability to break down the lignins (woody substances) in the things they eat.
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Good to know. I'll pass that on to my mom. Thanks!
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
I have read that is because horses do not have the digestive system to kill the seeds they injest.
Cows on the other hand do and as well the ability to break down the lignins (woody substances) in the things they eat.
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True about horses and their digestive tract. I've used fresh cow manure 6 months prior to plant out. No problems; lots of worms.
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
My apologies to the forum.
I have been an asshole at times and that is to my shame.
I need to stay out of the forums when I am in a bad mood obviously and that has been a lot of the time lately.
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I can only speak for myself of course, Apology accepted.
No one is immune to the occasional bad streak and when you get one, it tends to rub off on where ever you are.
Phil said:
I'd be careful with cow or horse manure.... both are GREAT additions, but my mom got a crappy (pun intended) batch of horse manure that wasn't composted before use this year, and now all of her potted plants have a thick bed of grass in them.... the seeds in the poop were still viable. Just make sure it's composted manure.
 
Here's a little trick I've been doing for the past couple of years to help renew/enrich seemingly spent soil in my pots, since I tend to reuse soil every year due to cost:
 
At the end of the season, I take all of the plants I don't intend to overwinter and cut them all the way down to the soil, then just leave the root ball in and walk away. Let them stay outside and die off. Over time, the roots will start to break down and rot in the soil. Come next growing season, I usually just have to pull the dead stump with a slight yank and everything under it is rotted/composted back into the soil. If you dump the soil out, you'll see worms in the bottom (they find their way there). Kinda like mini compost bins for individual growing! I still supplement with nutes, but it seems to work well every year.
Click to expand...
I heard sometime back and I cant recall exactly where but horse manure is the worst of the craps to use for growing veg. Could just be hearsay or could be truth, IDK.
 
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