food-safety Oxidation

[hot mama]

Hi, We're having some oxidation with some hot sauces batches and aren't sure why. The pH is usually around 3.30, we're hot filling using a manual lever machine up to the neckline of the bottle, and leaving them upside down for at least an hour. There is a range of settling once it cools, and I assume any bubbles/air that's in the sauce rises to the top. Usually the bottles finish at a good fill level (at least half way up the neck), but sometimes they are too low. If they are too low, what is the best thing to do? Can you open them to top off? If not, how can you sell them, or do you not? Could the amount of air space left after settling be causing the oxidation, even with the ones that finish half way up the neck? Should we fill higher, like halfway up the threads? When we ferment, we submerge everything and leave air space at the top. Should we fill with liquid to the top? It doesn't look like separation as the sauce starts to turn brown.
We don't use Xantham or absorbic acid, only 5% vinegar and the brine from the ferment.
Thanks for any insight!

 

[The Hot Pepper]

It certainly could be too much headspace. Especially since the HFH method does not create a true vacuum, only a slight vacuum. You might want to try to reduce aeration of your sauce so there is less settling. And as far as how much up the neck to go, a 5 ounce hot sauce bottle actually holds 5.5 ounces. Fill an empty one with 5 ounces of water and that is the fill line.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

What color is your sauce? Is it yellow? Just curious. Red sauces with proper pH don't usually need an antioxidant like ascorbic acid but some lighter sauces and sauces with certain fruits will benefit.

 

[hot mama]

So, should we fill to 5.5oz to allow it to settle back to 5oz? What do we do with the bottles that just settled too low and that we would like to sell? Can we top with sauce that was boiled at 190 for over 15 mins? Does it need to be heated again before being added?
Most sauces are red. Occasionally you can see some oxidation in those, but it's more visible in the orange ones. Same recipe, mostly red hot peppers and red bells, but can vary in color.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

@salsalady

 

[salsalady]

I am not a food scientist or expert. just offering a couple suggestions.

Sometimes the sauce I am cooking gets some foam or aereation. Not sure why, but I just keep cooking it and stirring it until the bubbles are worked out. I have bottled the sauce with the bubbles in and that has resulted in the same situation as what you are describing. a large headspace in the finished bottle. some sauces i make don't seem to get the excess air space, a couple sauces do seem to have the excess air space so I have to 'work' the sauce while cooking it to get the bubbles out.

I don't worry about how much sauce is exactly in the bottle. I fill up to the neck ring or just above. The same thing for my fresh salsa tubs which are labeled at 16 oz. net weight for the salsa is usually about 17 oz or slightly more.

I think, if filling a 5oz woozy by weight, the net fill would be about half way up the neck. which kind of looks like an underfill when cool. I fill up to the neck ring of a 5 oz woozy when hot. it cools down to below the neck ring by about 1/2".

You don't want customers to think you are short changing them. Max fill as much as you can, maybe by adding .25 oz more than the listed amount.


For the short fill bottles, don't try to top 'em off. find a place to sell them at a discount if they don't look good. if you are at a farmers market where you can sell in person, sell them as an OOPS or something.

You could totally re-process them. Empty the bottles, wash bottles, cook the sauce, re-bottle with new caps (do NOT re-use the caps!!!)... depending on how many bottles of sauce, might influence your choice.

 

[hot mama]

Thank you both for your replies. I've noticed foam during the cooking process, so I'll make a point to avoid it when filling, and try to work the foam out. Thinking out loud here - I wonder if there is more foam produced if the sauce is heated quicker rather than slower? Just a thought! I'm going to re-process these bottles as it's not just a few! And fill a little higher. As you said, I don't want to short-change people!

I was under the impression that I need to sterilize the bottles to use again, either boil method or use Star San. Is this correct or will washing alone be okay as I'm filling with the same sauce and in a short period of time? Could I reuse lids if star san is used on them?

Last question, at least for now!! Could the oxidation be caused by a lower fill level? I'm not sure that every bottle that seems to have it has a low fill. For reference the sauce is more orange in color.

Thanks again!

 

[The Hot Pepper]

Could the oxidation be caused by a lower fill level?

Yes, that's what I meant by headspace. More space = more air.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

I think, if filling a 5oz woozy by weight, the net fill would be about half way up the neck.

When determining your fill line, use fluid ounces. Net would differ slightly by the ingredients used. Fill with exactly 5 fluid ounces of water to see the intended fill line. This is true for all bottles sold. 10, 12, 32 oz., even if you plan to use net weight on your label, use fluid to determine the fill line whereupon if using net in production, it may need to be adjusted to match the line. But most liquids will be fl oz.

 

[salsalady]

Thank you both for your replies. I've noticed foam during the cooking process, so I'll make a point to avoid it when filling, and try to work the foam out. Thinking out loud here - I wonder if there is more foam produced if the sauce is heated quicker rather than slower? Just a thought! I'm going to re-process these bottles as it's not just a few! And fill a little higher. As you said, I don't want to short-change people!

I was under the impression that I need to sterilize the bottles to use again, either boil method or use Star San. Is this correct or will washing alone be okay as I'm filling with the same sauce and in a short period of time? Could I reuse lids if star san is used on them?

Last question, at least for now!! Could the oxidation be caused by a lower fill level? I'm not sure that every bottle that seems to have it has a low fill. For reference the sauce is more orange in color.

Thanks again!

They need the Wash, Rinse, Sanitize.
Starsan, bleach or boil, you could also heat in an oven. For this situation, I would wash with soap and water, rinse really well and then your choice of sanitizer. For bleach, I do the wash/rinse/bleach the day before, invert the bottles onto an old dishwasher rack with all the prongs and let them air dry overnight. For the oven, wash/rinse and the pile them in a roasting pan. 'bake' at 200F until the middle bottles are hot. Turn off the oven and leave them in there until ready to use. Don't pack the bottles really tight in the roasting pan as the glass will expand, don't want to crack any.

Bleach solution is 1 tsp per gallon of lukewarm or cold water, not Hot. Plain bleach, not any scented bleach.

I would NOT re-use the lids. even with the liner, small amounts of product could get under the liner and not get cleaned out. Use new caps, they are cheap. They can be purchased separately from the bottle at Specialty Bottle. You may have to call them if the caps arent listed individually on the website.

Interesting thought about foam being linked to the speed of heating. Never thought about that. I usually just keep heating it and stir, stir, stir until it looks like the aeration is worked out. I don't get foam all the time, just on some batches. It is a pain to deal with, but I have bottled with a bit of foam and the bottles always look short-filled. I end up selling at a discount or giving away.


I posted probably more detail than you need, but this is also for other newbies that might be reading.
SL