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media Peat vs coco fiber. What one study shows

That would depend on the source. There are self described experts on many forums and then there are others who are leaders in their field of study.
Have to hang out long enough to see which they are. ;)
 
Proud Marine Dad said:
Something else to consider.
 
Coco has a lower CeC (Cation Exchange Capacity) rating than Sphagnum Peat. Briefly, a soils CeC rating is it's ability to store and then release nutrients to plants. Sphagnum Peat does a much better job at this than Coco - for this fact alone, to me it's a no-brainer to use peat instead of coco. If you are interested in the science behind this go here - http://www.soilminer..._Simplified.htm
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It's not really an issue. Coco is hydroponics. You use hydroponic nutrients. The manufacturers have worked it out.

Neil
 
That would depend on the source.
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Indeed.  A fair amount of the moss-is-fine line, I notice, is put out by the association of the corporations mining and selling the product.
 
Cigarettes were fine—"Refreshing!"—for decades and decades.  The corporations selling smokes told us so. 
 
 
Coco. coco coco coco.
 
 
It has a high salinity (namely the bricks) because it comes from coastal regions, and naturally accumulates salt, hence the "hazardous" run off. It is dangerous if they let it run off willy nilly. Hence the recommendation to wash bricked coco, ideally until the run off EC is comparable to the flush water. Or skip the boat and buy the prebuffered bagged, though I've heard of hot batches.
 
As an unamended medium, I love it. Forget perlite, dolo, hydroton. Just that fluffy brown. Once the plant is rootbound, the rootball is like a tiny reservoir. If something is wrong, flush with a pH/EC corrected solution and the plant will recover faster than soil, and avoid the nasty death/damage it would see in hydro. Root rot is only an issue in extreme cases, typically from overwatering before full roots are established. The drainage is superior, without becoming saturated to a toxic point. Its a lovely thing to water a pot at high volume without resistance. Bottom water, top water, drip, makes a great wick and has a lower perched water table than most mediums.
 
It is important to use a hydro/coco specific nutrient, as they take account of cocos high capability to hold potassium, so well that it competes with Ca/Mg uptake. EC and pH are king, and many deficiences can be fixed by moving within a pH range. Salt build up can be an issue, if not dealt with in the feeding regime/schedule.
 
Admittedly, when dealing with plants in different stages of growth, with varying water demands (once they are rootbound, the girls, they love the water), it can become consuming to keep everything flowing smoothly. Allowing a pot to dry out is a deadly sin. It skyrockets the salinity of the substrate very quickly.
 
There are organic lines, how organic they are is debatable. I ran Earth Juice for a bit and the plants were healthy by any standard. Accounting for the hilarious pH swing put a murderous look to my smile for a few weeks. They have "organic" pH adjusters, but it was a running joke to watch it swing back after a few hours.
 
Is it for everyone? No. Is it for houseplants/small scale? Not really, unless you want to fiddle fart around mixing with an eye dropper. A glace at that study, and having read a number of its ilk, it isn't even for many professional growers, or maybe isn't the right product to their situation. Its high maintanence, finicky to learn, but in its place, I prefer it to the hydrophobic nature of peat any day. For growth and yield its tops. Even now as I'm loving the organic, water only approach, I buff my peat based potting mix with a bit of coco, for a bit of aeration and drainage.
 
Wow. Sounded a bit like a coco rep. Hell, we haven't even touched on using coco water yet. Or the milk. Curry. Food? I need to go.
 
Very well said Miguelovic. Coco isn't for everyone. But for those that enjoy a bit more of a technical nature to dialing a plant in, it's great. Coco gives you great control over virtually every aspect and stage of a plants life. It doesn't hurt that you get bigger plants and better yields in smaller pots either :)

Neil
 
Blister said:
Very well said Miguelovic. Coco isn't for everyone. But for those that enjoy a bit more of a technical nature to dialing a plant in, it's great. Coco gives you great control over virtually every aspect and stage of a plants life. It doesn't hurt that you get bigger plants and better yields in smaller pots either :)

Neil
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You guys are growing in hydroponics which has no bearing on the OP which was soil related. ;)
Blister said:
It's not really an issue. Coco is hydroponics. You use hydroponic nutrients. The manufacturers have worked it out.

Neil
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No as there are people who use coir in soil mixes as well and that is what the discussion is about.
Its a little hard to use sphagnum peat moss in hydro isnt it? :)
 
I have not  tried yet, but I speculate that there is a place and a ratio for a blend of coco and peat in a potting soil  because they do have very different ways of holding  or not holding water and nutrients. They are definitely not interchangeable. 
 
The study (on soilless growing) in the original post fails, because they treat each identically. Potassium toxicity and salt build up is going to kill or stunt plants every time. If the study were repeated, taking into account the difference between the two, peat would be left in the dust as a soilless medium.
 
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
 
And coir is hydroponic-like :)
 
The study (on soilless growing) in the original post fails, because they treat each identically. Potassium toxicity and salt build up is going to kill or stunt plants every time. If the study were repeated, taking into account the difference between the two, peat would be left in the dust as a soilless medium.
 
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
 
And coir is hydroponic-like :)


Well said!

Also what do you personally do to account for the potassium and salinity?
 
miguelovic said:
 
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
 
And coir is hydroponic-like :)
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I'm a little confused as well, but admittedly it's not hard to confuse me.

Neil
 
 
Also what do you personally do to account for the potassium and salinity?
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-coco orientated nutrients
-watering within a pH range, 5.6-6.3
-water to run off
-Drip Clean - a standby for anyone running salts
-pre-washing the coir
-clean reservoirs
 
swellcat said:
 
Indeed.  A fair amount of the moss-is-fine line, I notice, is put out by the association of the corporations mining and selling the product.
 
Cigarettes were fine—"Refreshing!"—for decades and decades.  The corporations selling smokes told us so. 
 


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Are you saying sphagnum peat moss is not a good, renewable resource?
miguelovic said:
 
-coco orientated nutrients
-watering within a pH range, 5.6-6.3
-water to run off
-Drip Clean - a standby for anyone running salts
-pre-washing the coir
-clean reservoirs
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You hydro guys have to work too hard.  :rofl:
miguelovic said:
 
 
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
 
 
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Because some people use it that way.
 
And some people use it another way.
 
 
You hydro guys have to work too hard.  :rofl:
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It is too much work, fiddle farting around (new favorite term) with bottles of Kool-Aid. Hence why I don't even have coco going right now, only organic soil mixes :)
 
Totally different story if I am growing for profit. A bit of extra work isn't such a pain when the results are on the scale.
 
miguelovic said:
And some people use it another way.
 
 
It is too much work, fiddle farting around (new favorite term) with bottles of Kool-Aid. Hence why I don't even have coco going right now, only organic soil mixes :)
 
Totally different story if I am growing for profit. A bit of extra work isn't such a pain when the results are on the scale.
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What are you using for your soil mix right now? I need to get some mixed up soon and am looking for ideas.
 
Basic three part, slightly modified
 
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
 
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
 
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
 
Pretty much what PMD does :P
 
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
 
miguelovic said:
Basic three part, slightly modified
 
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
 
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
 
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
 
Pretty much what PMD does :P
 
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
Click to expand...
 
Should I be worried about the quality of the fungus gnat larvae, or will any ol' fungus gnat larvae do?
 
miguelovic said:
Basic three part, slightly modified
 
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
 
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
 
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
 
Pretty much what PMD does :P
 
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
Click to expand...
 
Why do you use fungus gnat larvae????
 
Also someone on reddit mentioned composted pine bark as an alternative to vermiculite/perlite.
 
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