breeding Peppers with "dominant heatless"?

Zackorz

Zackorz

There are different types of heatless peppers, or low heat peppers:

- Heatless because of to crossbreeding
- heatless because of extraction/deactivation of the heat gene
- heatless because of a mutation

Normally the state of "heatlessness" is recessive. So if you cross a heatless pepper with a hot pepper, you will get a hot pepper. ( or maybe as half as hot as the hot variety?)

But i wonder if there are any specific peppers varietyes, or peppers that undergone on of the mentioned processes where the "no-heat" is dominant?
 
Such varieties do not exist (as far as I know). Something like that could definitely be genetically engineered using CRISPR-Cas9 or RNAi, but it is difficult to imagine how a natural mutation could affect capsaicin biosynthesis in a dominant fashion. The two well characterized recessive mutations simply inactivate enzymes of the capsaicin biosynthesis pathway (capsaicin synthase (pun1) and vanillin aminotransferase (pAMT)).
 
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Annuchin said:
Some surprising factoid: If you cross two heatless, completely non-pungent lines that have different mutations, then the offspring will be pungent... :)
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Thanks for the information, a really exciting topic.

Well I will try to cross two mild peppers this year so I hope they have the same mutation 😁.

On the other hand in my opinion there is no heatless pepper that had the same intense aroma than for example a orange habanero.

Maybe that is because capsaicin is a oil. And oil adds flavor.
 
Zackorz said:
Thanks for the information, a really exciting topic.

Well I will try to cross two mild peppers this year so I hope they have the same mutation 😁.

On the other hand in my opinion there is no heatless pepper that had the same intense aroma than for example a orange habanero.

Maybe that is because capsaicin is a oil. And oil adds flavor.
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I have never tried either one but there is the very well known Habanada and the lesser known Sweet Moruga which are supposed to taste about the same as their original but spicier counterpart.
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Annuchin said:
Some surprising factoid: If you cross two heatless, completely non-pungent lines that have different mutations, then the offspring will be pungent... :)
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Heat genes isn't a main focus for me, but if we're talking about true heatless, aren't there two distinct common mutations that are prevalent, with one being typical of annuum and the other of chinense, with multiple loci independently dictating the level of heat when heat is present? If so, this would suggest an interspecific cross to achieve this and running it as Annuum x Chinense to avoid virus-like syndrome. Are you aware of multiple true heatless mutations within a single species? I don't read up on this topic much, so I'm curious what I might be missing. Thanks.
 
Habanada tastes not as half as good as a orange habanero. Found it Really dull tasting. But I think it is a cross between a Chinense and a anuum so maybe the taste is not stable.

The sweet moruga is on my list this year, so we will see 😉.

The only mild pepper I ever had with a real Chinense taste is the pink habanero/cream fatalii. Maybe the numex suave red too but it lacks sweetness.

But I would so love a mild west Indian habanero, moa, fatalii, or bhut jolokia..

They are just tasting better, but I guess it's just the heat that makes them taste better or the oil that is a flavor enhancer.
 
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I have Habanda seeds (from Semillas) so maybe I'll grow it this summer. A few years ago I grew a plant of what was supposed to be a green Fatalii. As it developed, a variegated branch appeared. I saved seeds from a pepper that grew on this branch and only got variegated plants the following season. It seems stable because since then I have not noticed any difference between the plants (size, growth habit, productivity, etc.) nor between the appearance and flavor of the fruits. The peppers are almost completely heatless too, which contrasts with the OG Fatalii!

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Zackorz said:
But i wonder if there are any specific peppers varietyes, or peppers that undergone on of the mentioned processes where the "no-heat" is dominant?
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some time ago a user here who was crossing chili peppers spoke of some genes that functioned as heat on/off switches, and other quantitatives (more or less spicy). But I can't find his thread or references in the bibliography, other than those to Pun-1/pun-1 (major dominant or recessive pungency gene) and Pun-2 (found in C. chacoense). I would also like to know more.

Zackorz said:
Habanada tastes not as half as good as a orange habanero. Found it Really dull tasting. But I think it is a cross between a Chinense and a anuum so maybe the taste is not stable.
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Habanada is supposed to be a non-spicy mutation born in the University of New Mexico habanero crops, I don't think it's a cross with C. annuum (but so far I've had bad seeds, so I can't confirm).
I don't think its non-pungency is dominant, it should have the recessive pun-1 genes, so crossing it with a spicy pepper should give a spicy one, crossing it with a bell pepper should give a sweet one.

CaneDog said:
aren't there two distinct common mutations that are prevalent, with one being typical of annuum and the other of chinense, with multiple loci independently dictating the level of heat when heat is present? If so, this would suggest an interspecific cross to achieve this and running it as Annuum x Chinense
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it's very interesting, is there any article about it that we can read?
 
I thought Habanada were the one crossed with an anuum, but it could also be numex trick or treat or another mild Chinense. But there I definitely on that has been crossed with an anuum.

But I don't know if it needed a year's long stabilisation process to get heatless.
 
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SatanicFlatIron said:
it's very interesting, is there any article about it that we can read?
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Sure, SF. I was hoping for an update myself. Here's a couple sources I'm familiar with which address the topic:

The Genes of Capsicum - Wang and Bosland (2006)

Pepper Heat - Hernandez-Garcia and Zhang (2019)

EDIT: I haven't seen this paper before, despite that it's 15 years old and came up with just a quick search. Looks like I have some reading to do! :)

Contrasting modes for loss of pungency between cultivated and wild species of Capsicum - Stellari, Mazourek and Jahn (2010).
 
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I find the habanada more flavorful thatn @Zackorz appears to :) - but I'll agree it's not quite a habanero. It does have an odd property of telling your brain that serious heat is on the way, but it never arrives.
As for the origin, the habanada was developed by Michael Mazourek and Cornell University. UNM (Chile Institute) was finding "off-type" habaneros that they sent to him, and he started recrossing them with habaneros. From the history of it, doesn't look like any annuum involved.

There's also the "Fooled You" Jalapeno without heat. I'm told it tastes just like jalapeno, but I don't like those so I don't really have a comparison.

Habanada: https://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2015/04/habanada/
 
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