Pinched / Topped Plants vs UnImpeded Growing Plants

NorthernJeff

NorthernJeff

Hi everyone,
 
In case anyone is interested, I'm posting some pictures of the difference of how hot pepper plants grow throughout the summer season, depending on if they've been pinched (at week #4 to week #6 from germination) or if they've been allowed to grow unimpeded.
 
Otherwise, these plants haven't been pruned at all.  Just sitting out in my south facing backyard enjoying the long days of sun.  I live in Southern Ontario, and we haven't had the warmest of summers, and Fall seems to be coming quick.  I'm not sure how much longer I will be getting fruits, but I've already harvested enough to make 4 batches of hot sauces, and still fill up both crisper drawers in the fridge (wife NOT happy).
 
You can see a real difference in height, and in growing characteristics.  There is a noticably higher rate of fruits on the "pinched' plants, but it's not a massive difference either.
 
Butch T Scorpion (Pinched)
BTScorpion Pinched.JPG

 
Butch T Scorpion (Not Pinched)
BTScorpion Tall.JPG

 
Jamaican Hot Chocolate Habanero (Pinched)
Chocolate Pinched.JPG

 
Jamaican Hot Chocolate Habanero (Not Pinched)
Chocolate Tall.JPG

 
Carolina Reaper (Pinched)
Reaper Pinched.JPG

 
Carolina Reaper (Not Pinched)
Reaper Tall.JPG

 
Bahamian Goat (Pinched)
Bahamian Goat.JPG

 
Red Savina (Pinched)
Red Savina.JPG

 
Trinidad Moruga Scorpion (Not Pinched)
Trinidad Moruga.JPG

 
Yellow Ghost Peppers (Pinched)
Yellow Ghost.JPG

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Very good documentation, thank you for contributing.  I have been thinking about pinching everything that is going to grow outside the high tunnel next year.  We are in Kentucky, but the left overs from hurricanes has been taking a bunch of branches and a few plants this year.  Seems to get worse each year.  I wonder if maybe shorter / wider plants might help in that area.  Maybe they would catch more wind.

Have you noticed thicker stalks on the ones you pinched?
 
Hey!
 
This is really great to see a direct comparison! I'm growing in a tent where space is becoming a premium, having shorter plants is great.  Do the pinched plants have a noticably wider/more full canopy of leaves than the unpinched ones? It's tough to tell from the pictures if the pinched plants actually did grow out to be wider width wise or if it just ended up dropping the height of the plant.
 
AJ Drew said:
Very good documentation, thank you for contributing.  I have been thinking about pinching everything that is going to grow outside the high tunnel next year.  We are in Kentucky, but the left overs from hurricanes has been taking a bunch of branches and a few plants this year.  Seems to get worse each year.  I wonder if maybe shorter / wider plants might help in that area.  Maybe they would catch more wind.

Have you noticed thicker stalks on the ones you pinched?
Click to expand...
 
 
I'm glad it was helpful. To follow up with your question about stalk widths.  I went outside to measure them, and noticed no difference at all, between the topped/pinched plants and the free growing plants.  All of their stalks measure approx 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch wide.
 
In terms of behaviour in the wind - I have noticed a big difference. We have a prevailing cross wind through our backyard, which can knock things over during storms.  The shorter (topped) plants, do much better in the wind, as they are less top heavy, and more of a dense bush, which prevents single branches from being isolated and broken off.  The big canopies on the taller ones are top heavy, and act like a wind sail during storms, eventually taking the plant down (even with a heavy base pot).
 
guested said:
Hey!
 
This is really great to see a direct comparison! I'm growing in a tent where space is becoming a premium, having shorter plants is great.  Do the pinched plants have a noticably wider/more full canopy of leaves than the unpinched ones? It's tough to tell from the pictures if the pinched plants actually did grow out to be wider width wise or if it just ended up dropping the height of the plant.
Click to expand...
 
OK, so I took the measuring tape outside again, and here is what I came up with:
 
TALL (free growing) PLANTS
30 inches: Average Height
33 inches: Max Height
30 inches: Average Width
36 inches: Max Width
 
SHORT (topped) PLANTS
18 inches: Average Height
20 inches: Max Height
30 inches: Average Width
32 inches: Max Width
 
* My numbers may seem a bit smaller, as I have an inch or two of mulch on the top of the soil (to help keep moisture in on the hot days).
 
So, in summary, the width of the canopy is only slightly smaller on the shorter/topped plants, but they are considerably more DENSE.  The tall/free growing plants are approximately 18 inches taller, with a similar but slightly wider canopy.
 
Also, one other thing to note. The taller plants don't tend to grow much underbrush on the stalk, which leaves the pots prone to drying out faster.  I've found the shorter/topped plants, don't dry out as fast, and need less watering.
 
NorthernJeff said:
 
 
OK, so I took the measuring tape outside again, and here is what I came up with:
 
TALL (free growing) PLANTS
30 inches: Average Height
33 inches: Max Height
30 inches: Average Width
36 inches: Max Width
 
SHORT (topped) PLANTS
18 inches: Average Height
20 inches: Max Height
30 inches: Average Width
32 inches: Max Width
 
* My numbers may seem a bit smaller, as I have an inch or two of mulch on the top of the soil (to help keep moisture in on the hot days).
 
So, in summary, the width of the canopy is only slightly smaller on the shorter/topped plants, but they are considerably more DENSE.  The tall/free growing plants are approximately 18 inches taller, with a similar but slightly wider canopy.
 
Also, one other thing to note. The taller plants don't tend to grow much underbrush on the stalk, which leaves the pots prone to drying out faster.  I've found the shorter/topped plants, don't dry out as fast, and need less watering.
 
Click to expand...
 
So seems like ultimately you get the same plant, just shorter. Can you talk  about the time-to-fruit for the pinched vs unpinched plants? The rule of thumb seems to say that if you top a plant it sets back its growth by about two weeks so that can be impactful in a short growing season area, did you find this to be the case?
 
Also thanks for dragging your butt out there with a tape measure for that. :)
 
guested said:
 
So seems like ultimately you get the same plant, just shorter. Can you talk  about the time-to-fruit for the pinched vs unpinched plants? The rule of thumb seems to say that if you top a plant it sets back its growth by about two weeks so that can be impactful in a short growing season area, did you find this to be the case?
 
Also thanks for dragging your butt out there with a tape measure for that. :)
Click to expand...
 
Yes in terms of size, I was essentially getting the same plant, with a different height.  The slight variations in width are negligible, and stalk size was unchanged. Fruiting time didn't make a difference for me, because they were ALL already flowering by the time I took them outside in late May.  If you germinate early enough, and time them to be flowering before you take them outside, you should be fine.  My flowers were not germinating indoors, so they were just falling off, until they moved outdoors... then they all went gangbusters.
 
That being said, I have formed a personal opinion about some advantages of topping plants, that will lead me to continue to do so in future years.
 
My own personal advantages to Topped Plants (again at approx 4-6 weeks from germination):
 
- shorter and denser canopy does better job protecting soil from drying out, and extends time between waterings
- shorter plant height mitigates against being knocked over/destroyed in strong wind and storms
- topped plants produced a little more fruit than the free-growing ones (maybe 15-20%)
- shorter plants are easier to carry around in pots, and take up less space (height)
- shorter plants did not need to be staked, but the taller ones did.
- shorter plants look nicer and denser, than the taller, spindly ones.
 
Again, this was just my own personal and unscientific experiment.  If anyone else wants to weigh in, I would love to hear about your experiences as well!
 
AJ Drew said:
Very good documentation, thank you for contributing.  I have been thinking about pinching everything that is going to grow outside the high tunnel next year.  We are in Kentucky, but the left overs from hurricanes has been taking a bunch of branches and a few plants this year.  Seems to get worse each year.  I wonder if maybe shorter / wider plants might help in that area.  Maybe they would catch more wind.

Have you noticed thicker stalks on the ones you pinched?
Click to expand...
 
I pinched almost every plant I put out this season, about 125.  I almost regretted pinching them due to the fact that they did not get taller.  My scenario is unique in that I over plant and I know I do not properly space plants for maximum ease of gardening.   The stalks are quite thick but the main drawback I have is keeping everything off of the ground.  Many more stakes are required to keep the heavy branches loaded with pods off of the dirt.  This method has it's advantages and disadvantages.  In the case of a windy environment it definitely helps, IMO.
 
That visual is excellent !  I tend to like the "tree" version vs. the shrub.  Fewer peppers maybe, but hey, since I'm the only hot pepper lover in my house, a super hot goes a long, long way  :fireball:
 
Happy Growing,
 
Jeff
 
Awesome thread, glad i found it. This is something i have been thinking about recently myself.

I have 4 plants growing side by side. 2 were last years stock - these were not overwintered but left outside all year. In winter i topped them. The other 2 are new stock this year which i havent topped.

Coming in to summer all 4 plants are growing well but the new plants are twice the height of last years plants but nowhere near as dense with a shite load of fruit and flowers. The topped plants are thick but no fruit or flowers yet, only just starting to see some buds forming.

Season still has 5 months left so anticipate all 4 will come on strong
 
I've had some mixed success with topping.  Typically it gets you shorter denser plants but I've also had it significantly reduce growth so I tend to avoid topping.  While having a lot of low, dense foliage can reduce watering, it also creates more pest/disease issues.  Not as big of a deal in a container but can lead to some problems if you're growing in the ground.
 
Powelly said:
Literally every comparison I see shows exactly the same thing happening. How big a sample size do you need 
Click to expand...
 
 
I guess if that's your ruling, then I probably shouldn't even question it.
 
But if I were being analytical about the process, I'd use a better criteria than some pictures that somebody on the internet posted.  I'd probably do what a real scientist would do, and measure things like biomass, and total harvest weight.  And then I'd state what the actual outcome was.  Or even maybe what my initial goals were. And a sample size that would at least preclude any anomalies or varietal deviation.  In other words, this would be a great experiment for somebody who was really serious about it.

But you know... whatever.
 
There are thousands of photos showing a very clear difference between a plant that has been topped and a plant that hasn't
 
Powelly said:
There are thousands of photos showing a very clear difference between a plant that has been topped and a plant that hasn't
Click to expand...
 
I know there are.  What's your point?
.
Topped plants are shorter, un-topped plants are taller.  
.
The point was, that's all there is.  Pictures.  The conclusion that I see is, if you want short plants, top them.  If you want taller plants, don't.
.
Not sure that is anything more than a "Captain Obvious" conclusion, though.  If the purpose of the action matters for anything more - as is so often claimed - it needs something else besides... this.
 
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