Pubescens --> Annuum

cathyssocool

cathyssocool

Hello gang,
 
Like I said in my intro - probably not many have seen it -, I'm interested in "porting" some traits from pubescens to everything else. Namely, I live on 66 north, with a short and cool growing season and I'd love to have Neyde, Bahamian Goat, etc. growing on my balcony in just 8-10 Celsius (46-50 F) if possible, with an occasional night frost pouncing on them in June, why not. That's how it is around here  :rofl: <-- This is obv. not literal, but I don't want to give up on all those chinense varieties and settle with rocotos "only", just because it's cold here. Maybe with a dark purple, Neyde-ized Rocoto. Nah.  :fireball:
 
Ah, and I want juicy, thick, fleshy pods! I want those rocoto genes, that is...
 
Anyway, I planned to go ahead mostly with mentor grafting since I'm experienced with grafting, but then I found this article today. These guys seem to have done it already. They crossed rocoto with an annuum in a billion steps!
 
If I understood it right, they have done the following:
(1a) created a rocopica plant (by the way, anyone here with rocopica seeds to save me a bunch of steps? You could really help with my experiment... been hunting for a long time now. Nothing... :tear: ) -- ETA: actually I'm wrong, they used an eximium not a cardenasii... anyway. Read on...
(1b) they also created an annuum-chinense hybrid, probably parallel to the rocopica
(2) crossed said rocopica with a frutescens, let's call it frutopica
(3a) back-crossed the frutopica with a pubescens
(3b) back-crossed the annuum x chinense with an annuum
(4) crossed the plants they got from 3a and 3b. 
Q.E.D.
:fireball:
 
Huh????
Linky: http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US8022278.pdf
 
Interested in your opinions, input, everything.
==================
And I put it in the wrong sub-forum. Maybe an Admin could move it.
 
I was expecting the date to say april 1st. Pretty sure it's horse manure. There is simply no way the rocXexim would cross with the frut. Let alone the result cross with the chinXann. But even if it did it would be such a horrifying mish mash of recessive traits.

The trick here for you is to understand what makes the pubescens cold tolerant. Then understand why it takes so long to grow and mature. I have a theory that the two are inseperable. If you bred a pubescens to grow faster like an annuum, would it lose its' cold tolerance? I think so but need to find some research first.
 
They said nowhere in the article that they just wanted to do a general hybridization as such. They wanted to port one particular trait into the annuums that the pubescens had (some disease resistance).
 
Of course what they must have gotten at this point is probably "horse manure" in that it's some complete random plant. The pictures they have in the article are also of garbage quality.  
 
But it's the most documented paper I found up to date that was not just ideas but a documentation of something they seem to have actually done. Of course, I can't possibly know -- I haven't seen the plants and I don't know the folks either. 
 
I bolded a sentence in your comment. Is there any particular reason you are so sure about that? Because I think that's the hinge of the whole paper. Frutescens x (pure) eximium is possible. Have you attempted such a cross? Do you know anyone that has? Please share, I have a genuine interest at this, except I posted it in the wrong sub-forum...
 
I underlined another sentence. I've been thinking the same thing as one possibility, but I'm an engineer. I need answers. I don't just take "no".
__________
The whole point of the article was NOT to have a pubescens that grows faster like an annuum (or an annuum that resembles a pubescens). It was, like I said, to get one single pubescens trait into the annuum. I think that they didn't care about any other detail (what the resulting plants look like, how fast they grow, fruit size, taste, anything).
 
Yes, I realize that if I mean to try this it won't be a three or four-step process like they presented it. I have time, though :)
 
danish said:
I was expecting the date to say april 1st. Pretty sure it's horse manure. There is simply no way the rocXexim would cross with the frut. Let alone the result cross with the chinXann. But even if it did it would be such a horrifying mish mash of recessive traits. The trick here for you is to understand what makes the pubescens cold tolerant. Then understand why it takes so long to grow and mature. I have a theory that the two are inseperable. If you bred a pubescens to grow faster like an annuum, would it lose its' cold tolerance? I think so but need to find some research first.
Click to expand...
 
Aussie said:
For more discussion on this topic, see this earlier thread
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/45406-annuum-pubescens-hybrids/

I left around a dozen Pubescens plants outdoors through the winter. One night it got down to -8 deg C. Yep, 8 deg C below freezing. (...)

One brown rocoto survived the entire winter outside. I am taking good care of this plant! This is my start point for more cold tolerant rocotos.
Click to expand...
 
Wow, thank you! I've somehow missed that topic which is funny given I'd been searching THP for several weeks before I even registered here  :rofl:

You live on 35 South and I live on 66 North. Much, much colder here (most of the time I can only grow indoors). Right here where I live it can be -40. It is very common that it drops down to below -25 or -30 and stays there for five-six weeks in a row (Jan/Feb). Obviously, I don't expect any pepper plant to survive that. I know everything I leave on my balcony would die then. 
 
But if some pepper plants existed that could grow on my balcony from mid/late May (when our snow melts, so it's still cold, BUT we have basically 24/7 daylight by then) to late October (when the first snow comes again) and they would actually grow and produce in that interval, I'd be beyond ecstatic.
Not everyone can live in SoCal  :rofl: 
 
Average (monthly) temps here:
Temperature, °C -11.57 -10.61 -6.70 -1.55 5.77 12.37 14.74 12.16 6.78 0.74 -6.13 -10.05
Temperature, °F 11.17 12.90 19.94 29.21 42.39 54.27 58.53 53.89 44.20 33.33 20.97 13.91
 
Daylight: 
PZWk0a9.png

lulea.png
 
OK, I went away and attempted some reasearch but couldn't come up with any journal results. I was working from memory before and was confusing a pube mother. My assumption would be the pubeXexim cross would not cross because of the pube influence. However with the correct cross onto an exim mother it seems possible. As to whether cold tolerance can be crossed onto an exim mother is unclear. And if you were to achieve it, with possibly a back cross, would it still be viable with a frut is again unclear. Would need a lot of breeding.
 
Regarding my other theory, I can't find anything to back it up either. My assumption is the pubes' cold tolerance is from its' cambium structure. However I think the trade off is slower growth. In colder climates the advtange of a cross would be the short DTM of an ann with the cold tolerance of the pube. If I am correct the cold tolerance would negate the annuums' short DTM for a northern summer.
 
If you find any papers or get any results on pubescens cold tolerance and its' tranference I would be very greatful if you could send them my way.
 
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