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seeds Questions about seedling development...

Hey guys, I'm growing peppers from seeds for the first time this year, and I'm having a bit of a rough time.

Here's the background:

My first attempt I planted some seeds in a seed germinater dome thing in Jiffy peat plugs. I think I badly overwatered it at first, and exposed it to some pretty high heat at one point on the table on my patio (one unexpected 85 degree day caused some pretty extreme heat in the dome, and nuked a couple of tomato seedlings that were also in the dome.)

I planted about 20 pepper seeds, along with a bunch of tomato and tomatillo. I've had fairly decent germ rates on both of them (probably around 75% after factoring in the ones that sprouted and got torched) but have yet to have a pepper pop. It's been about 3 weeks since I planted the seeds, with no prep. Temps have fluctuated wildly, probably from lows in doors in the low 50's to highs (inside the dome) probably in the 80's, and with the one extreme day probably 100+ in the dome, with high humidity.

At some point I realized that I had probably burried the seeds to deeply, and undertook to find the seeds and remove a significant layer of peat from the pellets. (I had the "tomato" sized pellets, they are about 3 inches tall when fully expanded; for some reason I burried the pepper seeds about an inch down, but only about 1/4 or 1/2 inch on the tomatoes.) I discovered in one pellet an Aji seed that had a small tail, but it was brown and gooey looking. I presumed it to have molded from the high humidity and discarded it. Further investigations revealed several more seeds with what appeared to rotten tails, which were discarded and a few that appeared viable- pale green or white. I left them in the peat pellets and covered them gently with a thin layer of peat - no more than 1/4 inch. I conducted my excavations about 3 days ago, expecting the seeds with tails to pop soon. But as of this morning none have,

After I exposed the germanater to the 100 temps, I also started some seeds in the "paper towel method" , in ziplocks ontop of my cable box. It stays a pretty even temperature there, and is nice and warm but not absurdly hot. I don't currently have a thermometer but if I were to guess Id say its pretty steadily 80-90 degrees. The seeds have been going for 10 days or so. At least one seems to have a very, very small tail, and most of them have turned sort of translucent around the opening area, which has swelled up.

So here are my questions:

1. What do seeds look like prior to sprouting tails? (Are the translucent / swollen seeds doing well or did I mess something up? I'll take pics in a few minutes and edit them in.)

2. At what point should I plant the seeds from the paper towels? (Is there a certain length of tail suggested to wait prior to planting?)

3. Which direction should I plant the tail, up or down? (Are the tails roots or are they proto-stems from which the cotyledons will emerge? )


Thanks guys!

Mike
 
I'm no expert, but I can tell you what has worked very well for me this season, which is also my first season. I simply keep the Jiffy dome in my garage, which is pretty cool (60-65 f), on top of a heat pad. The first two days I leave the pellets very moist. Then after two days I remove the lid and empty out the excess water. I then put the lid back on and place it back on the heat mat and leave it alone until I see sprouts. Once I see sprouts I remove the lid and put them under my 125w CFL and leave the heat mat under the tray. After half the seeds have sprouted I remove the heat mat and keep the seedlings under 24/7 light and water the pellets 2 times a day to keep them moist which I found out from my first fail was very important.

I have had great success and with the exception of some Brain Strain 7's I have had greater than 80 percent germination and I now have healthy growing plants in red Solo cups.

Hope this helps
 
Thanks Morris,

I've been trying to get by without a heat mat, but I'll probably bite the bullet and buy one.

I was considering a grow light when the thought struck me to go look in the garage, where the previous tenant left a bunch of junk, and my girlfriends dad decided to "give" us a bunch of stuff for some hypothetical garage sale were supposed to have (more likely an excuse to clean out his garage). Jackpot- theres 2 large florescent fixtures used for the main lighting, only one of which is hooked up, another smaller flouro fixture, and some weird vintage cfl looking thing I'm using right now. My setup is comically ghetto right now ( the light is propped up between the wall and a chair, with my seedlings under the chair) but I ordered a plastic shelf unit that I'm going to mount the light to which should be here next week.

Anyhow, here are some pictures of my red & chocolate bhut seeds from the ziplocks. The camera didnt have a macro settings and I was having a hard time getting it to focus, but if you look closely you can see the development...


DSC00967.jpg

DSC00969.jpg

DSC00970.jpg

DSC00971.jpg
 
So here are my questions:

1. What do seeds look like prior to sprouting tails? (Are the translucent / swollen seeds doing well or did I mess something up? I'll take pics in a few minutes and edit them in.)

You're cool. The seeds do swell and sometimes at the little pointy part, the shell gets thin and the root tip levers out the softened slit, on some others, it just kind of pokes out the pointy part.

2. At what point should I plant the seeds from the paper towels? (Is there a certain length of tail suggested to wait prior to planting?)

I like to get them in the dirt just as soon as I see root hairs, the tiny fuzzy growths on the roots. I know some others like to wait much longer. I do it then, so the root os growing in place right away.

3. Which direction should I plant the tail, up or down? (Are the tails roots or are they proto-stems from which the cotyledons will emerge? )

Plant the seed vertically with the root tip pointing down. The root will drill down and the stem will straighten out and lift up out of the soil, and extend to form cotys and then leaves.

There are lots of ways of going about this, I'm sure you will get other ideas.

Here's a pic to illustrate:
DSCN4030a.jpg


Thanks guys!

Mike
 

Thanks for the input Paul! Any thoughts on how close these bad boys are to producing those root hairs you wait for?
 
Thanks for the input Paul! Any thoughts on how close these bad boys are to producing those root hairs you wait for?

The roots will get fuzzy pretty quickly, like a day or two.
The Aji seeds I just germinated had fuzz within two days.
The roots were about 1/8 to 1/4 or maybe 3/8 inches in
length with fuzz on them.
 
I am new to planting from seeds myself, so take this advice with a grain of salt.

I have never used the ziplock method, so I don't know much about that. I don't have a heat mat either, but here is what I do.

I take my Jiffy peat pellet trays and set them on top of my stove. If you have a gas stove, there are pilot lights constantly burning underneath the surface of the stove, and they seem to provide just the right amount of nice warming heat that gives me good germination rates in about 5-7 days for most of my varieties.

Of course, if you use your stove top or even the oven, you will want to take the seed tray off while in use. I forgot to the other day when I went to cook a frozen pizza, and started to melt the side of my tray. But like I said, this method has worked well for me and gives me good germ rates in pretty quick time.

Also, it does sound like you originally planted them a little deep. I try to go about 1/4 inch or so, which is what I think is recommended. Also, don't overwater. I did this on my first crop and ruined them as well.

Good luck.
 
I use the jiffy pellet and paper towel method as well. I'm new to this as well but its my first year but i've pretty much gotton everything down pat.

I use Hydro farm heat mat with the Hydro farm thermostat it's about 50 bucks but it really doesn't trick it keeps temperatures nice and warm which you should have them at a consistent 85° and be probably best.

As for the paper towel method I just whetted a bunch paper towels they were kind of soaking but not really Let them drip a little bit and then I placed eight seeds and two rows of two and I just covered and I got results and about for five days on most of them some of them failed but oh well.

As for the Jiffy pellets those took a little bit longer but I'm pretty sure that's because They had to hook up normally instead of in the Tupperware box they just get roots, but I buried them one at eight of an inch down and that seem to work pretty well. on average I'm still growing right and its been three weeks and I got all varieties except for one six out of seven so it's pretty good but it took about three weeks.

Just make sure that am the Jiffy pellets they've moist and not soaking wet if they start dripping that means they are soaking wet. if the top side is dry browned that means that they need to be watered because they are dried out.

So just be patient and if you could find a consistent heat source and with the lid and keep them moist it should be anywhere from I think I got results in three days to on Um three weeks.

Sorry if this post went on for way too long I use Siri to talk most of it out because I'm lazy but yeah good luck sir.

Joseph Stalin
 
I use the jiffy pellet and paper towel method as well. I'm new to this as well but its my first year but i've pretty much gotton everything down pat.

I use Hydro farm heat mat with the Hydro farm thermostat it's about 50 bucks but it really doesn't trick it keeps temperatures nice and warm which you should have them at a consistent 85° and be probably best.

As for the paper towel method I just whetted a bunch paper towels they were kind of soaking but not really Let them drip a little bit and then I placed eight seeds and two rows of two and I just covered and I got results and about for five days on most of them some of them failed but oh well.

As for the Jiffy pellets those took a little bit longer but I'm pretty sure that's because They had to hook up normally instead of in the Tupperware box they just get roots, but I buried them one at eight of an inch down and that seem to work pretty well. on average I'm still growing right and its been three weeks and I got all varieties except for one six out of seven so it's pretty good but it took about three weeks.

Just make sure that am the Jiffy pellets they've moist and not soaking wet if they start dripping that means they are soaking wet. if the top side is dry browned that means that they need to be watered because they are dried out.

So just be patient and if you could find a consistent heat source and with the lid and keep them moist it should be anywhere from I think I got results in three days to on Um three weeks.

Sorry if this post went on for way too long I use Siri to talk most of it out because I'm lazy but yeah good luck sir.

Joseph Stalin

Thanks for the input Joe. I hit 3 weeks I think today on the seeds in the germanator, I think 10 days on the ziplocks. Keeping my fingers crossed that some pop, but If i don't see any soon I'll start more. I have a couple seeds left & considering how long the season is in So Cal a late start is not a disaster. I don't want to spend the $$$ on a thermostat based heatmat, but if the ziplock bags on top of the cabe box dont work out, I may just bite the bullet and invest.
 
I am new to planting from seeds myself, so take this advice with a grain of salt.

I have never used the ziplock method, so I don't know much about that. I don't have a heat mat either, but here is what I do.

I take my Jiffy peat pellet trays and set them on top of my stove. If you have a gas stove, there are pilot lights constantly burning underneath the surface of the stove, and they seem to provide just the right amount of nice warming heat that gives me good germination rates in about 5-7 days for most of my varieties.

Of course, if you use your stove top or even the oven, you will want to take the seed tray off while in use. I forgot to the other day when I went to cook a frozen pizza, and started to melt the side of my tray. But like I said, this method has worked well for me and gives me good germ rates in pretty quick time.

Also, it does sound like you originally planted them a little deep. I try to go about 1/4 inch or so, which is what I think is recommended. Also, don't overwater. I did this on my first crop and ruined them as well.

Good luck.

The stove sounds like a good heater, and I might even try it, but my girlfriend would either kill me or set the house on fire. I'm not sure which. She's constantly using the stove or oven.
 
Thanks for the input Joe. I hit 3 weeks I think today on the seeds in the germanator, I think 10 days on the ziplocks. Keeping my fingers crossed that some pop, but If i don't see any soon I'll start more. I have a couple seeds left & considering how long the season is in So Cal a late start is not a disaster. I don't want to spend the $$$ on a thermostat based heatmat, but if the ziplock bags on top of the cabe box dont work out, I may just bite the bullet and invest.
You know the portion cups and lids from fast food restaurants work really well. I don't remember who first posted that method, but I've tried it twice, and had good results both times. I usually just sow in dirt, but the cup idea is a good one. I think they are far easier to handle than the baggies. You can just sit the little cups on your cable modem, or whatever. Good luck!
 
UPDATE:

One of my seedlings in the germinator/ humidity dome has finally popped, although its cotyledons are weirdly mangled- the tips are brown, narrow, and hard to the touch. Like litle twigs. At first I thought it had rotted...but they wouldn't be so hard in that case I think. I'm unsure it will live, but why not wait and see.

Also, one of the seeds in the paper towel / ziplock process finally sprouted its fuzz on its root, so I planted it in a small seed starter pot in "Empire Builder", about a 1/4 inch down. Hopefully it takes.

Both seeds so far are "Aji Mix" from Aji Joe.





IMG00072-20120401-1427.jpg


Fuzzy tail...

IMG00073-20120401-1436.jpg


Potted

IMG00074-20120401-1436.jpg


Odd seedling in humidity dome

IMG00075-20120401-1438.jpg


Closer view
 
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