soil Quick and dirty recipe for potting soil to be used in cloth pots?

[Bicycle808]

Ok, so I finally got around to finishing off my raised beds; they're all built up and I had the local garden center drop off four yards of topsoil on Saturday. Big dump truck came, dropped topsoik at my curb where my wife normally parks her car, and we spent the whole day moving it to the beds using one little wheelbarrow.

I'm still a little sore. Most of my muscles ache, and I got a mean sunburn, too.

So, either I messed up my math ( I double checked it a bunch of times) or the Garden Ppl just sent too much dirt, bc I still have leftover topsoil-- not a whole lot-- but I also filled my beds higher than I'd planned bc it was/is(?) my intention to top off the new beds with compost from my local community garden, but there's not much room left to fit much in... But that's a question for another day bc, right now, I'm thinking that I need to F with this extra topsoil ASAFP.

So, here's the relevant factors:
-i got maybe twelve cf of topsoil left. Even more if I skim some off the top of my new raised beds...
-i got a good number of extra chile plants
-i got these cloth pots, y'know, the felt jawns, leftover from my first year of growing
-i think I got some perlite left; i'd probably need to buy more

So, I'm obviously thinking I should mix that topsoil with some, like composted cowshit, perlite, peat moss, maybe something else? (I got gypsum and lime on-hand, too.). But what I need is a quick'n'dirty recipe, like how much to use of each one, to get some pots going. I don't want this excess dirt or these extra plants to go to waste.

Yeah, I been searching and reading posts on it, but the more I read, the more my head spins and I'm hoping someone wiser than myself will just step in and tell me what to do. I know I want to mix it up so it drains well; don't want to end up with cloth bags full of mud and dead plants... And I am guessing perlite will help with that a lot. I just need some rough estimates on what ratios to use, in terms of topsoil: perlite: peat: cowshit: other stuff.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Powelly]

1 part aeration (lava rocks / pumice - perlite floats to the surface over time)
1 part topsoil
1 part organic material (compost, peat moss, etc etc - whatever you like)

 

[Bicycle808]

Hmmm. Ok I'll try that. See how it goes. Sounds good, but that's a looooot of pumice, lol


Thanks

 

[Powelly]

Yes a 3rd aeration does seem like a lot. I've been doing a lot of thought and experimentation into this lately though. When growing organically, without bottled nutrients, the health and life of the soil is completely contingent on the amount of oxygen in the environment

 

[solid7]

1 part aeration (lava rocks / pumice - perlite floats to the surface over time)
1 part topsoil
1 part organic material (compost, peat moss, etc etc - whatever you like)

 
Perlite doesn't float to the surface.  The stuff that's in the top 1/2" will get watered to the top, when the smaller/heavier particles are displaced.  But the rest of the perlite that's been stratified in the container isn't going anywhere.  In fact, roots do a damn fine job of anchoring it, and beneficial fungi take it one step further.
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I see lots of people these days using topsoil in containers.  We should know by a simple forum search that there are case upon case upon case of growers having problems with soil based media in containers, that are remediated by going back to soilless 101.  There are always caveats to using any media, but in general, soil doesn't go in containers.  
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If you have access to composted pine bark - especially in bulk - this makes one of the best quick and dirty potting mixes.  At the nursery, we use a mix that is 85% composted pine bark, 5% builders sand, and 10% peat.  It works amazing, and is good for about 2-3 seasons, max, before it starts to compact.
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Composted cowshit isn't on my love list, either.  Not a fan of commercial feedlot products.  Who knows what went through those animals. (assuming that we even know where it comes from)  If you have your own cows, different story.  It only takes a very small amount of something like vermicompost to do a really fantastic job in a gardent.  I typically won't use or recommend more than 5% of total container volume of a good quality homemade compost or vermicompost.

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

If you want to try a cheap poo check out...Chick-n-Poo.  About $10/25lb bag if you have a Menards near you.
http://www.chicknpoo.com/product-info.html
 
I also avoid soil in containers but if you can get really good compost you could use more. LOVE aged pine fines but they do seem to need more attention. It will dry out very fast in fabric pots. Works great if you get lots of rain. Only draw back is more nutrients might be needed.

 

[solid7]

I also avoid soil in containers but if you can get really good compost you could use more. LOVE aged pine fines but they do seem to need more attention. It will dry out very fast in fabric pots. Works great if you get lots of rain. Only draw back is more nutrients might be needed.

 
The role of compost is often misunderstood.  It's very good at innoculating a healthy microbe colony, and providing significant nutrient retention.  But you really never want to exceed 10%, unless you have super dry conditions, which don't result in said compost compacting, or turning to mud.  Unfortunately, what works well in one part of the country or world, can be disastrous in another.  (I tried and failed several times with high compost ratios here in our hot humid climate, where other mixes were stellar performers)
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The issue with composted pine bark drying out is less than with non-composted, but that's why a bit of peat or something similar needs to be added.  It doesn't take much.  10-15% is plenty.  The advantage, of course, is that if pine is an available commodity in your area, it tends to be rather cheap.  I can get a dump truck load brought to our site for $300.  That's easily the cheapest viable solution for mass planting that I have available.  And did I mention that it grows great?

 

[Orekoc]

Does composted Douglas Fir (not really a fir) work as well as pine bark?  Or a hemlock/fir mix?  We don't have many pines in Western Oregon, so it is mostly fir or hemlock here.
 
Thanks!

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

I can get it here for about $42 per yard if i want to go pick it up. Around $170 for 3 yards delivered.
https://www.stlcompost.com/mulch/
 
They offer a similar product in bags but its 40% pine fines, 40% Black Gold compost and 20% rice hulls. It drains like mad. I tested it last year here in a fabric pot. Ended up needing to mix it with some ProMix so it wouldnt need to be watered daily in the summer heat. Personally i dont think it had 40% compost in it but that is what they told me. The plant i grew in it loved it. By far the best cheap growing mix ive used.

 

[solid7]

Does composted Douglas Fir (not really a fir) work as well as pine bark?  Or a hemlock/fir mix?  We don't have many pines in Western Oregon, so it is mostly fir or hemlock here.
 
Thanks!

 
That's actually a really great question, but unfortunately, I have no experience with it. If it were me, I'd ask around some local nurseries.  If it's viable, cheap and readily available, they'll be using it.

 

[solid7]

They offer a similar product in bags but its 40% pine fines, 40% Black Gold compost and 20% rice hulls. 

 
I tried something very similar (perlite instead of rice hulls) one year, and for the first month or so, it was fantastic. (I also used cloth pots)  However, after that, I had serious issues with compaction and nutrient leaching.  It turned to concrete, and then got some kind of fungus that had the consistency of stale bread.  Tried it again, thinking maybe it was just a one-off, but the exact same thing happened again.  I had another plant in fabric pot that was given to me - a fatalii.  It was planted in Pro-Mix with some composted chicken manure added.  That plant was a little bush all year long. 

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

Mine grew great all year. I reused it this year. Only added minor amendments to it and gave it a good mixing. The Bolse de Dulce i have it in looks awesome atm....Actually, it might have a mini red rocoto but both of those look nice too....Now i need to go check and see.

 

[Bicycle808]

Fwiw, I already mixed it up, ⅓ topsoil, ⅓ compost, ⅓ Perlite. Haven't planted in it yet.

My main motivation for this project along the lines of, I got extra topsoil, extra compost, extra plants, and leftover fabric pots, so maybe for the cost of some vermiculite, I can get some pots going.

If I had room for another bed, of have probably built one, but that wasn't in the cards. I just didn't want to waste this dirt or these plants...

I sometimes wonder if ppl don't have different definitions of what 'compost" is... The stuff I use, it doesn't become mud. It will be soggy after a good rain, but it drains quickly and never takes on the texture of mud. At the community garden, all they let us put in our raised beds is compost. And everything grows, if all the other variables are favorable. But it never gets muddy in the beds.

Now, composted cow poop, I could imagine that getting muddy. But the leaf-based(?) compost that gets dropped off at the community garden every other year? That stuff ain't muddy.

But yeah, I'm gonna slide a bunch of these would-be culls into these 1part/each soil/compost/perlite pots, and see how they do. Last time i did subverting like this, the plants grew pretty well and I got some pods off then, but admittedly, they didn't do nearly as well as my plants in the raised beds did. But, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And I got nothing to lose except for a few bucks spent on Perlite at the Home Depot.

Thank you, everyone, for your input and advice. Wish me luck!

 

[solid7]

Compost in raised beds is fine, as long as there isn't an impermeable bottom in the bed.  If you have cloth, or an open bottom in the beds, compost works in beds just like soil.  And yes, "compost" means many things to many people.
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Keep this thread updated.  Your experience may help someone else down the road.

 

[Bicycle808]

Good point; I'll try to remember to. That's how this forum has helped me the most; looking thru old posts for solutions found by ppl going thru the same shit that I am, lol

 

[Powelly]

At 1/3rd aeration you're not going to have to worry about the mix getting muddy

 

[Siv]

I think the ⅓ peat moss, ⅓ compost, ⅓ vermiculite is referred to as Mel's mix. This recipe seems to refer to store bought compost because that stuff is barely compost and mostly bark and twigs (or sand if you get Black Cow). From the limited info I have managed to glean, it seems that those that use this successfully are supplementing with fertilizer (either blood & bone meal or chemicals).
 
I'm using something more like 1/2 peat moss, 1/4 perlite and 1/4 compost and have added a bunch of blood & bone meal as well as slow release fertilizer. It's not working very well!

 

[solid7]

I think the ⅓ peat moss, ⅓ compost, ⅓ vermiculite is referred to as Mel's mix. This recipe seems to refer to store bought compost because that stuff is barely compost and mostly bark and twigs (or sand if you get Black Cow). From the limited info I have managed to glean, it seems that those that use this successfully are supplementing with fertilizer (either blood & bone meal or chemicals).
 
I'm using something more like 1/2 peat moss, 1/4 perlite and 1/4 compost and have added a bunch of blood & bone meal as well as slow release fertilizer. It's not working very well!

 
Mel's mix is intended for open bottom raised beds.  It's a shitty container media.
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You have way too much compost, if you're using containers.  Bone meal is really not the great amendment that it's made out to be, as it takes WAY too long to break down - especially in a container.  Blood meal is an OK N source, but it's nasty, and a potential pathogen risk.  Personally, I would leave them both out.
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Try this:
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7 parts peat
3 parts perlite
1 part compost
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Use a complete orgainic dry fertilizer - like Dr Earth tomato and veg - or a liquid fert, like CNS17 Grow (inorganic) or Alaska Fish emulsion (organic).

 

[Siv]

 
Mel's mix is intended for open bottom raised beds.  It's a shitty container media.
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You have way too much compost, if you're using containers.  Bone meal is really not the great amendment that it's made out to be, as it takes WAY too long to break down - especially in a container.  Blood meal is an OK N source, but it's nasty, and a potential pathogen risk.  Personally, I would leave them both out.
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Try this:
.
7 parts peat
3 parts perlite
1 part compost
.
Use a complete orgainic dry fertilizer - like Dr Earth tomato and veg - or a liquid fert, like CNS17 Grow (inorganic) or Alaska Fish emulsion (organic).

 
Thanks - since everything is planted out, it's too late to change anything this year. I'm using a masterblend mix for my hydro plants so I'm going to try the same with a venturi feed into the drip irrigation system. Will try feeding every couple of weeks and see if it makes a difference.
 
About half my plants in container (grow bags) were started in soil and the other half in hydro. They were all potted out when they were about the same size (12" or so) and while they're green and happy they're not growing at all.

 

[solid7]

 
Thanks - since everything is planted out, it's too late to change anything this year. I'm using a masterblend mix for my hydro plants so I'm going to try the same with a venturi feed into the drip irrigation system. Will try feeding every couple of weeks and see if it makes a difference.
 
About half my plants in container (grow bags) were started in soil and the other half in hydro. They were all potted out when they were about the same size (12" or so) and while they're green and happy they're not growing at all.

 
Definitely not too late.  And if the growth of your plant stalls for too long, it will only be a matter of time before they begin their failure mode.  You will want to see some new growth very soon, or it's a cause for concern.
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Keep that mix recommendation on hand, as backup, in case you see a decline, and need to switch course. (it might not even hurt to repot one plant, just as a baseline)