soil Recycling Soil

[Proud Marine Dad]

 
3)  Apparently I know quite a lot about food web and organic growing if I can reuse my own soil and not have to keep spending an arm and a leg for someone else to do it for me.  Having products shipped across the world to grow plants is a ludicrous concept to me and that includes growing cannabis. 
 

You are entitled to your opinion since you know nothing about neem. And by the way you can buy it from buildasoil.com so it doesn't have to be ordered from India!
 

 
4)  There's nothing pathetic about kitchen scraps.  Think about what you are suggesting.  If the food is good enough for YOU to eat, suddenly it isn't good enough to use to grow plants that produce food you eat?  I think you are growing too much cannabis.     Putting fruits and vegetables back into the soil is almost exactly what you were taking out of the soil when you grow peppers and later compost the stems and leaves, NOT the exotic stuff you are adding instead.

I was talking about worm castings if you had read my post. Try as you might the 90% or higher water content of vegetables and fruits are NOT made into castings when ingested by a worm. It's physically impossible. But if you think it is then by all means continue feeding them to Eisenia fetida.

 

[Dave2000]

You are entitled to your opinion since you know nothing about neem. And by the way you can buy it from buildasoil.com so it doesn't have to be ordered from India!
 
I was talking about worm castings if you had read my post. Try as you might the 90% or higher water content of vegetables and fruits are NOT made into castings when ingested by a worm. It's physically impossible. But if you think it is then by all means continue feeding them to Eisenia fetida.

 
The thing is I don't need to know about neem, except for the insecticidal properties.  All these crazy things you are buying are not necessary for big healthy plants. Further, I do know a fair amount about cannabis growing, it's 10X over the #1 cash crop here in KY, and now that Obama and friends are making it hard for coal mining to survive, it may be the #1 source of state revenue, period.
 
Water content vs worms is not relevant.   Bacteria breaks down anything the worms don't and the moisture in fruits and vegetables is great for supporting that golden "food web".  Worms have plenty to eat otherwise.  There are many paths to the same end result and you are merely taking the more laborious and expensive one.  I am fine with that, but to suggest it as if it is necessary or good, is not fair to people seeking unbiased advice without telling the other side of the story.

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

Forget it. I am not wasting anymore time on this forum tonight.
I have better things to do.
I do like what my buddy just posted on another forum in relation to this discussion:
 

 
The cool thing about organic gardening is that YOU can decide how deeply you'd like to get into it. You could buy a premade organic soil such as is built by a quality company like "Build a Soil" or you can go deep; making your own soils from scratch, creating compost, vermicompost, raise and/or wild-harvest dynamic accumulator plants for use in your gardens, create botanical & enzyme teas, and on and on.

This is real science. This is Nature at its finest. This isn't bottle gardening.

That is why I push organics. The science!

 

[Dave2000]

^  Science isn't about only theory, it's about reproducible results that deviate based on the variables you alter while the rest remain constant.   More than that, science supports getting a soil analysis done, setting a target nutrient density, picking the most cost effective (or easiest, or hardest lol if that's what you want to do) way to amend the soil to that, then determining if it's even worth bothering to do by keeping track of time and expense, and having a suitable sample size including a control group.
 
Mixing up a bunch of organic things which are beneficial in some situations is called shotgunning, not science.  Then again, so was my suggestion that if you want more peppers without the extra expense, you could grow more plants, or the use of synthetic fertilizer in general if you don't have continual soil analysis done.  None of it is science, BUT we do have billions of dollars and decades worth of farming experience to look at, where science shows benefit from synthetic fertilizer as well as organic, where real scientists, working for big farming corps, actually study this every day.

 

[Hybrid Mode 01]

     So first you quote your friend saying: "The cool thing about organic gardening is that YOU can decide how deeply you'd like to get into it."
 
     And then you say:

 
 
That is why I push organics. 

 
     I think your pushiness with the issue probably turns more people off to organic growing than anything on this forum. You just won't stop. It seems like every other post of yours is the same preachy crap, time after time. That condescending, know-it-all pontification about how you have seen the light of organic gardening and how anyone who hasn't and, furthermore, (god forbid) defends their position is just some uneducated dope that needs to be talked down to until they see the light too.
     I grow almost entirely organically. The only time I use salt fertilizer is when I sprinkle some 15-15-15 on the lawn in spring and fall. (Gotta grow some compost!) I understand that using salt fertilizers might undo some of the benefits I'm seeing from trying to build and maintain helpful soil microbiota. I also understand that other growers have (gasp!) differing opinions, experiences and budgets when it comes to gardening. I do my best to document my progress, answer questions and offer advice when it seems like it could help another grower. I have seen this approach prove much more conducive to a free flow of ideas among the different schools of gardening than your three-part process of 1.) preaching 2.) showing contempt when others express differing opinions and 3.) bowing out of the debate when you (again) fail to convert anyone with your incessant evangelizing.
     My organic garden turned out pretty good this year (as evidenced by my glog). But I know there are many other growers here that I still need to learn from, regardless of whether they grow organically or not. That's one of the reasons why I'm here - to see the amazing gardens that some of these folks grow and do what I can to find out how they do it and see if I can achieve results like theirs. Not to have one guy's opinions on gardening crammed down my throat at every turn. That doesn't help anyone.

 

[Robisburning]

I have just started using a soil mix that is working fantastically for me. No big suprises - 1/3 fresh worm castings, 1/3 potting mix and 1/3 vermeculite.  I also add half a cup of dolomite lime and 3 cups of chicken manure per 25 litres (6 gallons). The vermculite is insanely expensive at about $10 per 8 litres (2 gallons).  Perlite is about $50 per 100 litres so I will use that next year.  I will be planting out into the garden so no chance to reuse the soil in the containers next year but if anyone has suggestions on a cheaper alternative to Perlite or Vermeculite I am all ears.  Is there an alternative to lighten the soil and incease drainage? If I had huge amounts I would mix some though my garden beds to lighten the soil up.

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

     So first you quote your friend saying: "The cool thing about organic gardening is that YOU can decide how deeply you'd like to get into it."
 
     And then you say:
 
     I think your pushiness with the issue probably turns more people off to organic growing than anything on this forum. You just won't stop. It seems like every other post of yours is the same preachy crap, time after time. That condescending, know-it-all pontification about how you have seen the light of organic gardening and how anyone who hasn't and, furthermore, (god forbid) defends their position is just some uneducated dope that needs to be talked down to until they see the light too.
     I grow almost entirely organically. The only time I use salt fertilizer is when I sprinkle some 15-15-15 on the lawn in spring and fall. (Gotta grow some compost!) I understand that using salt fertilizers might undo some of the benefits I'm seeing from trying to build and maintain helpful soil microbiota. I also understand that other growers have (gasp!) differing opinions, experiences and budgets when it comes to gardening. I do my best to document my progress, answer questions and offer advice when it seems like it could help another grower. I have seen this approach prove much more conducive to a free flow of ideas among the different schools of gardening than your three-part process of 1.) preaching 2.) showing contempt when others express differing opinions and 3.) bowing out of the debate when you (again) fail to convert anyone with your incessant evangelizing.
     My organic garden turned out pretty good this year (as evidenced by my glog). But I know there are many other growers here that I still need to learn from, regardless of whether they grow organically or not. That's one of the reasons why I'm here - to see the amazing gardens that some of these folks grow and do what I can to find out how they do it and see if I can achieve results like theirs. Not to have one guy's opinions on gardening crammed down my throat at every turn. That doesn't help anyone.

Whatever. You obviously have me confused with someone who gives a shit.

 

[John1234]

^You've got your passion (albeit, a bit zealous) in the right place, but terrible debate skills.
 

I have just started using a soil mix that is working fantastically for me. No big suprises - 1/3 fresh worm castings, 1/3 potting mix and 1/3 vermeculite.  I also add half a cup of dolomite lime and 3 cups of chicken manure per 25 litres (6 gallons). The vermculite is insanely expensive at about $10 per 8 litres (2 gallons).  Perlite is about $50 per 100 litres so I will use that next year.  I will be planting out into the garden so no chance to reuse the soil in the containers next year but if anyone has suggestions on a cheaper alternative to Perlite or Vermeculite I am all ears.  Is there an alternative to lighten the soil and incease drainage? If I had huge amounts I would mix some though my garden beds to lighten the soil up.

 
Something I've been looking at lately, and was going to post in the soil sticky.

 

[nzchili]

I have just started using a soil mix that is working fantastically for me. No big suprises - 1/3 fresh worm castings, 1/3 potting mix and 1/3 vermeculite.  I also add half a cup of dolomite lime and 3 cups of chicken manure per 25 litres (6 gallons). The vermculite is insanely expensive at about $10 per 8 litres (2 gallons).  Perlite is about $50 per 100 litres so I will use that next year.  I will be planting out into the garden so no chance to reuse the soil in the containers next year but if anyone has suggestions on a cheaper alternative to Perlite or Vermeculite I am all ears.  Is there an alternative to lighten the soil and incease drainage? If I had huge amounts I would mix some though my garden beds to lighten the soil up.

How about pumice? much cheaper then perlite @ bunnings.
The other option is pine bark chips, which is quite cheap. Not that light physically, but improves drainage and helps the soil resist being compacted.

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

^You've got your passion (albeit, a bit zealous) in the right place, but terrible debate skills.

Well if this were a debate forum that would matter but it's not so I don't care. I'm outta here. Ciao ya'll.

 

[Hybrid Mode 01]

Well if this were a debate forum that would matter but it's not so I don't care.

 
    Will you please promise us to remember these words ^ the next time someone talks about their successes or failures in growing with salt fertilizers?

 
 
 
Something I've been looking at lately, and was going to post in the soil sticky.

 
     Definitely deserves some attention from this gardener. Thanks for posting.

 

[Proud Marine Dad]

 
    Will you please promise us to remember these words ^ the next time someone talks about their successes or failures in growing with salt fertilizers?

No worries as I won't be here.

 

[queequeg152]

the salt hatred in this thread is too damn high.

see, ionic bonding is actually cute and relatable

 

[Hybrid Mode 01]

     Salts and enzymes. Makin' the world go 'round!