commercial-kichen renting a kitchen
- Thread starter Topsmoke
- Start date
wow seems crazy expensive. Disney world is only $80 for 14hrs, and thats the happiest place on earth! My guy is interested in working with me to use my sauces in recipes, maybe he wont rake me over the coals like that.salsalady said:
found a couple places in my state, not near by, that charge 20 or less an hour, phew 100 an hour is not affordable for me.
Topsmoke said:
You may already know this, but I didn't see anything about it so it bears mentioning.
Having the licensed commercial kitchen is only a small slice of regulatory compliance. You'll also need your canner's license (or work under the guidance of a licensed canner) and you'll likely need to work with your local authority to have the kitchen inspected and approved for production of LACF category food.
Sorry if this is something you've already considered or have well in hand, but the kitchen is only a small piece of what's needed to produce hot sauce.
It may not be applicable since you say you don't cook your sauce (is it "refrigerate only"?)
Either way, just be aware that you may have other concerns besides the physical location being a commercial kitchen.
I was looking at using a commercial kitchen myself, and a very nice kitchen was going to cost me $15/hr for the workspace, but I had to guarantee 24 hours a month for that price. They had a 30 gal kettle, stainless steel fit & finish everywhere and some very nice amenities. If I wanted to use cold or dry storage, there was a cost associated with that as well.
I think if I couldn't guarantee 24 hours a month it was going to be $18/hr.
So yeah - pretty similar to the per day pricing SL quoted
i thought I had responded but must have not hit "post" so i apologise for the late response but, No i didnt know that! It seems like info is scarce or obscure so I really appreciate any info that can be given. If anyone has a go to site for info on starting out that would be great. One look at the FDA site is enough to make any would-be sauce maker tuck tail and run!Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
Topsmoke said:
Start with your local health dept. Laws/regulations vary state-to-state - they will either know, or will know who to refer you to (or possibly a regulatory document online)
Chances are good that your local county health dept is the authority who inspects such kitchens, so they should be your go-to resource for this, not the FDA.
salsalady
eXtreme Business
+++ to LDHS
I'd add that there is a good chance your AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) is the state dept of ag.
Google "
ennsylvania food business regulations" as a start.
Oh What the heck....
Here's a couple to get you started-
http://extension.psu.edu/food/entrepreneurs/starting-a-business/working-with-pda
http://extension.psu.edu/food/entrepreneurs/starting-a-business/working-with-pda
http://extension.psu.edu/food/entrepreneurs/starting-a-business
Ask your county health district if they are responsible for licensing food processing businesses that wholesale and retail. Usually they are not responsible, but can be a good souce of information about kitchens that might work for your processing. It's usually the state that is responsible for processors, especially those who have to be FDA registered, that's if their product requires someone with a BPCS certification (the canner's license Scott was referencing).
Redtail Forester is PA licensed. (Redhawk Peppers)
I'd add that there is a good chance your AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) is the state dept of ag.
Google "
ennsylvania food business regulations" as a start.Oh What the heck....
Here's a couple to get you started-
http://extension.psu.edu/food/entrepreneurs/starting-a-business/working-with-pda
http://extension.psu.edu/food/entrepreneurs/starting-a-business/working-with-pda
http://extension.psu.edu/food/entrepreneurs/starting-a-business
Ask your county health district if they are responsible for licensing food processing businesses that wholesale and retail. Usually they are not responsible, but can be a good souce of information about kitchens that might work for your processing. It's usually the state that is responsible for processors, especially those who have to be FDA registered, that's if their product requires someone with a BPCS certification (the canner's license Scott was referencing).
Redtail Forester is PA licensed. (Redhawk Peppers)
What Salsa Lady said about the Department of Agriculture is often the case, maybe in rural states. In my state, the Department of Agriculture and the Health Department (Cabinet for Health and something or another) each have authority over different areas of food production, storage, and distribution.
Although I think you want to be full blown commercial, I'd suggest contacting your county Extension Office. They are a combination of State University and Department of Agriculture. Ask them about home processing programs. If you have such programs, you can join and do your experimenting from your own home kitchen, selling only at the venues they authorize. Not all states allow things like acidified foods in that program. Some do. But either way, I have had my best luck asking questions at the Extension Office than anywhere else.
I should share that for what ever reason, our Cabinet of Health is in the same building as things like social workers. So to go have a conversation about making things like powders, I sit in a waiting room with parents who are being investigated for molesting their children. So I might be tainted against the health department.
P.S. - Just remembered the main reason I jumped in. Your county extension office likely has a list of commercial kitchens you can rent at a good price. Often your state university will have them for a fair price. Many churches also offer their kitchens for rent. There is one here which uses the money for its food pantry program. Love the relationship between commercial and charitable efforts.
Although I think you want to be full blown commercial, I'd suggest contacting your county Extension Office. They are a combination of State University and Department of Agriculture. Ask them about home processing programs. If you have such programs, you can join and do your experimenting from your own home kitchen, selling only at the venues they authorize. Not all states allow things like acidified foods in that program. Some do. But either way, I have had my best luck asking questions at the Extension Office than anywhere else.
I should share that for what ever reason, our Cabinet of Health is in the same building as things like social workers. So to go have a conversation about making things like powders, I sit in a waiting room with parents who are being investigated for molesting their children. So I might be tainted against the health department.
P.S. - Just remembered the main reason I jumped in. Your county extension office likely has a list of commercial kitchens you can rent at a good price. Often your state university will have them for a fair price. Many churches also offer their kitchens for rent. There is one here which uses the money for its food pantry program. Love the relationship between commercial and charitable efforts.
The problem with google - google tries to cater your search results based on previous searches. In all my searches penn st, exstensions never came up, never even thought to check there despite it being a common place for me to find gardening advice, go figure. Thanks guys this is exactly why Im part of this forum!salsalady said:
Just a thought.
How many hours in a row can you rent? For example, if you need 6 hours to produce your sauce, and they can only give you 4 hour chunks of time, then it might not be a good deal.
I mention this because I read in one post that someone was spending 2 days per week, 10-12 hours each day making sauce during one of their boom periods. If you had to amp up your production, could this kitchen support that, or do you have to look for a larger contingency kitchen if your sauce sales increase?
How many hours in a row can you rent? For example, if you need 6 hours to produce your sauce, and they can only give you 4 hour chunks of time, then it might not be a good deal.
I mention this because I read in one post that someone was spending 2 days per week, 10-12 hours each day making sauce during one of their boom periods. If you had to amp up your production, could this kitchen support that, or do you have to look for a larger contingency kitchen if your sauce sales increase?
salsalady
eXtreme Business
it all depends on the facility.
When we had a shared use community kitchen available to rent, at it's peak, there were 3 main users. It wasn't that large of a facility. For our kitchen, I and 2 other people had set days. The kitchen was such that only one person/business could process at one time. I usually did Tuesdays, Jamie did tamales and other stuff on Wednesdays and Salyna (who did wedding cakes and other confections) blocked out Thursday/Friday & sometimes Saturdays.
Sometimes, there were other people renting the kitchen for 10-12 hours a day, but they were usually One Time or short term users. In the fall, weddings weren't so busy so Salyna would allow others to take some of her days. I think we also did an unofficial "averaging" of days needed. Us main tenants paid for the set amount of days and unused days could be banked. So the Cake Maker paid for 2 days a week all year and used a lot of her banked days in June/July. Not all kitchens have that flexibility. We also had a committed monthly rate that was less than the per-use/per-hour rate the others had to pay for occasional uses
Some kitchens can have multiple users in there at one time. One shared use/incubator kitchen in Pasco, WA has 4 separate stations, each one seemed to be set up for different operations. I was there briefly about 11 years ago. It seems like there was a section set up specifically for baking with the ovens and such, other sections were more general use and didn't have the banks of ovens.
Note- in just typing this, I remembered a key phrase. "Incubator Kitchen". Might be something to use when searching. Shared use, community kitchen,...
Anyway, to Lao Spice...a person could of grown their business to several days a week in our small kitchen and still have room for others to use the kitchen. As the kitchen was set up as an Incubator Kitchen, the cake maker eventually did outgrow the shared use kitchen and went on to get her own facility. Again, every facility is different.
And don't be afraid to negotiate! If they don't have a X-Hours a month committed and paid for (at a lesser rate) whether you use them or not...might be something to look in to. Maybe they will let you bank the hours paid for. Never know...
When we had a shared use community kitchen available to rent, at it's peak, there were 3 main users. It wasn't that large of a facility. For our kitchen, I and 2 other people had set days. The kitchen was such that only one person/business could process at one time. I usually did Tuesdays, Jamie did tamales and other stuff on Wednesdays and Salyna (who did wedding cakes and other confections) blocked out Thursday/Friday & sometimes Saturdays.
Sometimes, there were other people renting the kitchen for 10-12 hours a day, but they were usually One Time or short term users. In the fall, weddings weren't so busy so Salyna would allow others to take some of her days. I think we also did an unofficial "averaging" of days needed. Us main tenants paid for the set amount of days and unused days could be banked. So the Cake Maker paid for 2 days a week all year and used a lot of her banked days in June/July. Not all kitchens have that flexibility. We also had a committed monthly rate that was less than the per-use/per-hour rate the others had to pay for occasional uses
Some kitchens can have multiple users in there at one time. One shared use/incubator kitchen in Pasco, WA has 4 separate stations, each one seemed to be set up for different operations. I was there briefly about 11 years ago. It seems like there was a section set up specifically for baking with the ovens and such, other sections were more general use and didn't have the banks of ovens.
Note- in just typing this, I remembered a key phrase. "Incubator Kitchen". Might be something to use when searching. Shared use, community kitchen,...
Anyway, to Lao Spice...a person could of grown their business to several days a week in our small kitchen and still have room for others to use the kitchen. As the kitchen was set up as an Incubator Kitchen, the cake maker eventually did outgrow the shared use kitchen and went on to get her own facility. Again, every facility is different.
And don't be afraid to negotiate! If they don't have a X-Hours a month committed and paid for (at a lesser rate) whether you use them or not...might be something to look in to. Maybe they will let you bank the hours paid for. Never know...
Thank you for the info Salsa Lady. It always helps to know how other people are set up so you have ideas of how to negotiate.
I was more throwing out a potential roadblock (SWAT analysis) for TopSmoke to think about. I used to work in restaurants and was a GM. The amount of time you might be able to have can vary widely depending on the restaurant hours. If they don't have enough time for larger productions, he might want to think about a contingency plan if he needs the volume later.
High demand is definitely a high-quality problem to have. (it's a problem I hope to have someday) Best to be prepared.
I was more throwing out a potential roadblock (SWAT analysis) for TopSmoke to think about. I used to work in restaurants and was a GM. The amount of time you might be able to have can vary widely depending on the restaurant hours. If they don't have enough time for larger productions, he might want to think about a contingency plan if he needs the volume later.
High demand is definitely a high-quality problem to have. (it's a problem I hope to have someday) Best to be prepared.
salsalady
eXtreme Business
Lao Spice said:
True Dat! And hope that happens sooner than later!
I understand what you are referencing about processing time. I probably would of been happy using the shared use kitchen for about 5 more years, but the kitchen went under as a community kitchen, a restaurant person bought the facility and I was supposed to continue using the facility "in the off hours" but things just didn't work out. We came to that cross-roads that a lot of businesses get to. Get your own place or quit.
Most businesses will go through a growth process. I've seen several that jumped in with both feet and a half-million$ of retirement money to fail spectacularly. Building a 300K building and processing plant and not having a clue how to market their beef jerkey...which is an incredibly tough market to deal with...that was 12 years ago. Funny thing is...the cake maker I spoke of took over the defunct jerky plant....
Start small, get into a kitchen that works for now, and look for a larger place when needed.
When the restaurant/formerly shared use kitchen wasn't working out, we were fortunate enough to have an existing building, the funds to front the expenses, and an immediate income opportunity (catering lunches for a river rafting company) that we were able to convert a portion of the garage to a commercial kitchen and pay it off in a couple years. That's not always an option. And we did have many discussion whether to continue or just bag it! I looked at all sorts of commercial buildings to see if any would be viable to quickly make into a kitchen. Where we live is quite rural so there really aren't that many commercial spaces existing. Not just "available" but existing.
Always worth asking them for discounts if you're cooking late at night "non-premium" hours. I cook during the graveyard and get a rate of $10 an hour. So I am okay with that.
salsalady
eXtreme Business
That's Great! and props for doing the graveyard shift. For a Night Owl or someone already working graveyard, that's perfect.
ajdrew mentioned using a church kitchen. Think outside the box and when you are driving around town, look at every building and ask yourself "is there a kitchen in there I could rent?" Firehall, Eagles, Elks, Moose, Masonic, VFW, Grange, Church, Private school, closed up restaurant......
Also, get creative on working out a payment schedule. Some places like churches and grange halls are limited to how much the facility can be used by a for-profit venture. They may be able to work out some kind of a trade for services agreement. Kitchen time in trade for janitorial, bookkeeping, yard maintenance ,
ajdrew mentioned using a church kitchen. Think outside the box and when you are driving around town, look at every building and ask yourself "is there a kitchen in there I could rent?" Firehall, Eagles, Elks, Moose, Masonic, VFW, Grange, Church, Private school, closed up restaurant......
Also, get creative on working out a payment schedule. Some places like churches and grange halls are limited to how much the facility can be used by a for-profit venture. They may be able to work out some kind of a trade for services agreement. Kitchen time in trade for janitorial, bookkeeping, yard maintenance ,