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Sand, Silt and Clay

W

wordwiz

Still trying to figure out why part of my garden is dead (though some weeds ARE starting to grow. I did a very basic soil test - dig out a sample of soil down to eight inches, put it in a jar, add water, shake it up and let it settle.

Ideally, it should be 40 percent sand, 40 percent silt and 20 percent clay. After eight hours, it looks like it is 100 percent silt. No sand, no clay.

Could the lack of clay have something to do with the inability to sustain growth during summer? If so, any idea what I can add to the soil?

Mike
 
I would send a soil sample to my county extention office or a university for testing. The garden "experts" generally recommend adding organic matter to improve soil no matter if it's mainly clay or sand.
 
I started about three years ago. Tried potatoes, none came up. Some green beans and corn did two years ago, but they were stunted and produced next to nothing. Last year I tried lettuce, basil and green beans - everything came up but again was stunted - the lettuce was the worst. It never got more than a couple inches tall. But once I get about 12 feet away from the fence, stuff grows great.

I just checked my soil sample and after a day it seems to have a very, very thin layer (maybe 1/32 of an inch) layer of clay and then the rest seems to be silt. There is absolutely no change in the color of the stuff. Makes me wonder if perhaps the soil is incapable of holding moisture during the summer, which might explain why plants will sprout (the potatoes were probably my fault - I used old ones from under the counter) but never mature fully.

(Thinking back while typing...)
You know, when I first moved here, nothing much grew there, not even grass. I attributed that to the area being shaded by a huge tree, though it did get lots of afternoon and evening sun. After I dug up the yard for the pool and moved the dirt there, stuff would grow but eventually, I had the dirt moved and sowed grass. It grew - because it was watered, heavily, no less than every three days. Once the pool was taken down, the grass grew but not very well.

All along, I've been thinking the chlorine from the pool water and the tree has been what is wrong with the soil when it is (maybe, possibly, perhaps) the soil itself.

Any thoughts? Would this be ideal ground for peppers since it sure drains nicely?

Mike
 
how big an area are you talking about Mike?
 
AJ,

It's about 12 feet wide by 25 feet long. Then the ground gets better. Stuff grows there, just not quite as good as it does once I get further away from the area. There is definitely a difference in the soil. I almost have to push the rotary tiller through that ground, it breaks apart so easily. In the rest of the garden, I have to keep the thing from running away.

Mike
 
do you have the history of what was there before your house Mike?....not implying anything, just curious...something is causing the difference...

a thought would be to dig up about 2 feet deep of it, and replace it with good soil you build....compost, sand, etc...there may be something in the soil that would prevent building the soil from working...JMO
 
AJ,

My neighbors have never mentioned anything actually being there and there are no signs of any structures such as pieces of concrete, metal, etc. Plus, when I was watering it extremely heavily, grass grew fine. But even if I ran the pump for five minutes, flushing 50 gallons of water per minute, I could walk through it 30 minutes later and it wouldn't be wet on top.

I wish I had thought of this two months ago. There's no way I can do much this year, except maybe add bags of something to it and till it in. I alreay have potatoes and stuff planted below it and there is not enough room to get even a bobcat back in there now. No way would I try doing this with a shovel.

Mike
 
Mike, with the access to information you have, you probably could do a search on the history of the land don't you think?....you got me really curious now....

I totally understand about digging with a shovel and moving that much dirt...unless you could talk a high school football team into it...barter with them.....heck a team of kids could move that dirt in a couple of hours don't you think?
 
I'd check the PH of the soil. What type of tree grew there previously?
I'd also suggest adding compost and other organic matter such as kitchen scraps, leaves and cut grass.
 
AJ,

I'll ask my neighbor and some of the "historians" of Hartwell what they know. But I can't think of anything that would change the composition of the soil that much.

Mike
 
What Potawie said is right...

I am just curious why that particular spot is bad...are there any other spots like that around you?....
 
The neighbor's yard just behind it. Grass doesn't grow well there either. I think they mow it a couple of times a year.

Potawie,

It was an English Elm, or so we were told. I have some compost that I can add this fall but it hasn't finished working yet. Thousands and thousands of tomato seeds in it from last fall!

I'm waiting on a ph and fertility meter. Hoping to get it today or tomorrow.

Assuming the soil is fertile (N-P-K, etc.,) and the ph is okay, will this dirt work in containers? That would enable me to "move" quite a bit of the soil, add compost and stuff this fall then cover it with the dirt and sow some wheat for overwintering. As noted above, it has very little clay or sand, mostly silt.

Mike
 
A guy I knew had a similiar problem. He decided to dig a hole and found hundreds of beer cans, an oil barrel or two, all kinda rubble and bricks and a refrigerator.

Before you ask, the cans were empty and the fridge didn't work anymore. :)

Don't mean to scare you, but it would be a good idea to take a look what might lurk below where the grass should be. I wouldn't use the "dirt" in containers until you are absolutely sure what the problem is!

I suggest using containers with soil from wherever, but not that certain spot!
 
When I was digging out the ground for the pool, I did run across an old fireplace. Well, not the fireplace itself but some ashes and old coins, though not so old as to be collector's items!

Seriously, the soil composition in that one part of the garden is different. Using a little garden tool - one of those that is about six inches long and three inches wide, I could easily plunge it into the soil all the way. This is soil that has not been worked in almost a full year. Even in ground that I tilled a couple of weeks ago, I could not do that. I'm coming to the belief the tree dying and stuff not growing very well there has nothing to do with me using that area to backwash the pool. Think about it: the only time anything has grown there is when I planted grass and watered it at least three times a week, using a bunch of water at a time.

Friday, I dug up some up the dirt and put it in a small pot, as I wanted to see if a seed would sprout. This was not the top soil, but dirt from at least six inches I soaked it with water, until it was muddy. We haven't had a whole lot of sun since then. I just checked it and two inches down it falls apart.

If the problem with the dirt is an inabilty to maintain moisture for more than three days, I can easily deal with that, from simply adding shredded newspapers or some clayish soil to watering them every three days if it doesn't rain. Then this fall, I'll have access to literally tons of free horse manure mixed with straw plus I can get loads of dirt that is more clay than anything.

Yep, I'm on a budget. I've already tripled last year's expenditures and the only thing I have in the "ground" so far is some potatoes.

Of course, this year I plan on selling produce and I didn't last year.

Mike
 
Chiliac said:
A guy I knew had a similiar problem. He decided to dig a hole and found hundreds of beer cans, an oil barrel or two, all kinda rubble and bricks and a refrigerator.

Before you ask, the cans were empty and the fridge didn't work anymore. :)

Did IGG used to live there? :beer::lol:
Click to expand...
 
Did you "lime" the dirt before putting in the pool? That will nuke the soil every time.

Edit:

Did you have a DE filter or a cartridge filter? The reason I ask (besides being in the pool biz for 10 years) is that DE will "float" on top of regular dirt. In other words, unless you dig it all out, it will float back to the top. You'll never be able to grow anything in it. Besides the pool chems (which by the way plants seem to LOVE...pool water that is) it also has skin flakes, hair, and all other sorts of contaminants.
 
First - I'm not sure I would let Iggy close to my home. He is from Cleveland and that's three strikes against him to start with!

DD - I haven't done anything with the soilin the last three years except add a tad of fertilizer when I sowed the seeds. I had a cartridge filter for the first few years but quit using it. At first, it was a two-part filtration system - the filter and then the sand filter. I replaced the sand every 3-5 years. A couple of times, when the water got really nasty, I would add a little diatomasious (spelling?) earth, but not much. I bought a five-pound bag and still have probably three pounds of it left.

Maybe I can add this to the dirt in my containers!!!

Mike
 
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