Sawyer '15 - Killing frost 11/22 + pics

Sawyer · Apr 4, 2015

Essegi said:
Those are exactly like dente di cane (that means doog teeth) that there are here and you saw on my glog, leaves are the same too. Nice.

4 digit number here, lol, probably i don't reach 3 even if i sum peppers, basil and tomatoes.

Hi Giancarlo, thanks for stopping by. Yes, I remember those in your glog. If I remember correctly, I think yours are Erythronium dens-canis, while mine are Erythronium albidum. I just discovered another common name for them (and maybe the preferred name) is White Fawnlily. I was out hiking today and scored another find, Erythronium rostratum, Yellow Troutlily. I took pictures, but the camera isn't in reach and I'm too tired to go get it. (Three and a half hours in rugged terrain... first outing of the year.) I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I've been looking for this one for years.

I haven't even started my tomatoes yet. Already falling behind.

jcw10tc said:
Over 1000 plants. Don't know how your going to do it unless you have some help. I did some inventory the other night, have 283 hot peppers. Still havent counted sweets and tomatoes. Yours are looking good. Ever have issues separating them? Looks like you have multiple per cell, and they are getting pretty big in some of them.

Yeah, Justin, me either. I'm giving plants to a few folks in exchange for sharing the harvest, but I don't have enough volunteers yet. I'm also working on one or two research collaborations with the local university and that will take a few plants, too.

I don't usually have much trouble separating plants. Grabbing them by the stem, one in each hand, and wiggling them back and forth usually separates them easily. If they get too root bound, I'll do the same thing under water and they almost always come right apart. Worst case, I break a few roots, but they almost always recover.

Some notable points on the latest germination update this morning: Two Jimmy Nardello from the 3/25 resow have germinated, so I now have three of those total. That should be enough for a few peppers as well as resupplying my seed stock. Several Heritage Big Jim from the 3/25 resow have come up, so I now have 9 of those. Still zero for the Heritage 6-4, though. I have new seeds for both of those, as well as a few other interesting things for one last, eighth, pepper flat. Eight new Red Morugas gives me 11 total for those.

moruga welder · Apr 4, 2015

Sawyer said:
Edit 03/09/15 - This OP was such a mess with multiple lists, Old Seed, New Seed, Saved Seed, Gifted Seed, etc., I'm redoing almost the whole post. All of the lists have been merged into a single mega-list. I am actually trying to grow at least two or three plants of almost everything on this list. For those marked with a leading (x), I am currently out of stock of seed (though may have OW plants). Those marked with a leading "*" are not currently planned to be grown in 2015. Trailing numbers refer to the seed source, keyed at the bottom of the list. The sourcing information is currently incomplete. Many varieties I had linked to descriptions, but the formatting didn't survive the copy/paste. I'll try to fix that at some point. I also tried to arrange this list into 3 columns, but couldn't figure out how to do it here.

7 Pots:
*(x)Barrackpore
Barrackpore Chocolate(3)
Brain Strain Yellow(1,11)
(x)Brain Strain Red
*Brown Standard(1,11)
Brown Standard G3
*Brown Long
Brown Long G3
Burgundy
Caramel F2
Congo SR Gigantic
Douglah(1,11)
Jonah G2
Large Red
Mustard F2
*"not Red" (a serrano-/Inca Red Drop-shaped "not")
Original Red(11)
Peach F2
Primo(1,11)
Primo Yellow(13)
Red(1,12)
Red Long(9)
Yellow(12)
*(x)Yellow Large
Yellow Long(9)
White(1,3,11)

Trinidad Scorpions:
Butch T
CARDI(11)
Chocolate(6)
Moruga Brown(1,11)
Moruga Caramel(11)
Moruga Chocolate(15)
Moruga Red
Moruga Yellow(1,5,11)
*Moruga/Moruga Blend Yellow(12)
Red(12)
Sweet(3)
*Yellow(1(iso),11)
Yellow Original G2

Jolokias/Nagas:
Assam(12)
Banana Bhut F2
*BJ Brown G2
BJ Brown G3
BJ Giant(8)
BJ Orange
BJ Peach(11)
*(x)BJ Purple
BJ Red(1,11)
BJ White(11)
*BJ Yellow(11,12)
BJ Yellow G3
Black Naga(1,8)
BOC(3)
*(x)Naga King
Naga King Orange(15)
Naga Morich(12)
"not white" Yellow Bhut

Crosses/Mutations:
Arkansas Peach F2
Arkansas Reaper F3
Brown Bhutlah(15)
Bubblegum(3)
Carolina Reaper(1,6,7,14,16)
*(x)D'Bhut (7P Douglah x BJ)
Devils Brain(11)
Elysium Oxide Bonnet(1,4)
Jay's Peach Ghost Scorpion(1,3)
Jay's Red Ghost Scorpion
FG Jigsaw
Funky Reaper(7)
*Goat's Weed x Romy Mystery(?)
Madballz(1,3)
Nagabrain Chocolate F3 (9)
Peach Pheno(3)
Pimenta Lisa F3(9)
Red Bhutlah(15)
*(x)Sepia Serpent
*Long Smooth Red (spicy banana)

Bonnets/Habaneros:
Bahamian Goat(1,3)
Bonda Ma Jacques(1,3)
Brown SB
Brown Congo
Giant White Hab(11)
JA Hot Choc Hab
Large Yellow-orange Hab (not GWH)
Lemon Habanero
Long Brown
MoA SB G2 (1,18)
*(x)Orange Hab
Paper Lantern Hab(15)
Red Hab(11,15)
*(x)Snow White
Trinidad Congo Red(11)
*(x)Yellow Hab
*(x)White Bullet Hab

C. baccatums:
Aji Amarillo(14)
Aji Mango(11)
Birgit's Locoto(15)
Bishop's Crown (3)
(x)Blonde(3)
Brazilian Starfish(11)
Orchid(11)
Red Pumpkin(11)

C. pubescens:
*(x)Manzano Amarillo
*(x)Orange Manzano (2 types)
*(x)Orange Locoto
(x)Red Manzano
(x)Yellow Manzano
*Giant Mexican Rocoto(11)

Other C. chinenses:
Brown Egg(3)
Charapita
Datil
Fatalii Black(13)
Fatalii Cream(15)
Fatalii White(8,13)
*(x)Fatalii Yellow
Flaming Icicle(15)
Georgia Black(3)
Grenada Seasoning Yellow(15)
Mako Akokasrade
Malaysian Goronong(15)
Murupi Amarela(9)
Pimenta de Neyde(1,11)
Star of Turkey(11)
Tobago Treasure Red(1,3)
Tobago Treasure Yellow(11)
Tobago Treasure White(9)
Trinidad Cherry(3)
Trinidad Seasoning
White Devil's Tongue (1,3)

Jalapeños:
Ciclón, Colima, Tajin (mixed F2 seed)
Cracked(11)
Early(1,11,15)
Farmer's(11)
Jaloro(15)
M(15)
Orange(15)
Pinata(1,10)
Purple(15)
TAM(15)
Tormenta(9)

New Mexico:
64L(15)
*(x)Chimayo
Joe E. Parker(15)
Heritage Big Jim G2
Heritage 6-4(1,10)
Sandia(15)
Santa Fe Grande(15)

Sweet annuums:
Bull's Heart(11)
Chocolate Beauty(15)
Corno di Toro(15)
Corno di Toro, Orange(15)
Corno di Toro, Yellow(15)
Jimmy Nardello(15)
Kurtovska Kapija(20)
Marconi Golden(6)
Marconi Red(6)
Paradicsom Alaku Sarga Szentes(6)
Sulu Adana(11)
Syrian Three Sided(6)
Sweet Pickles(11)
Tekne Dolmasi(11)
Yellow Monster(6)

Ornamentals:
Aurora(15)
Black Pearl(15)
Chinese Five-Color(15)
Explosive Ember(15)
Golden Nugget(15)
Marbles(15)
NuMex Twilight(19)
Prairie Fire(15)
Purple Flash(15)

Other C. annuums:
Albanian Red Hot
Alma Paprika
*(x)Amarillo Chiltepin
Black Hungarian(6)
Caloro(15)
Çumra Cherry(11)
Devil Serrano(9)
*(x)Fish
Goat's Weed(11)
Hungarian Hot Cherry(3)
Large Red Hot Cherry(1,11)
Long Red Slim(16)
Mulato Isleno(15)
Padron(19)
Paprika(15)
Pasilla Bajio(6)
Pimiento de Padron(6)
Puya(15)
Takanotsume/Hawk Claw(16,17)
Tepin
Urfa Biber(20)

Special Projects:
MFPJ3(9)
MFPJ15(9)
MFPJ28(9)
MFPJ30(9)

Sources:
(1) - Self-saved (as are all otherwise unmarked entries)
(2) - PaulG
(3) - GA. Growhead
(4) - capsidadburn
(5) - PepperLover
(6) - Baker Creek
(7) - Devv
(8) - gnslngr
(9) - meatfreak
(10) - CPI
(11) - PL
(12) - MGOLD86
(13) - jcw10tc
(14) - RFC
(15) - TWF
(16) - Pepper Joe
(17) - DesertChris
(18) - Steve954
(19) - JSS
(20) - stickman

Though I only planted out fewer than a third of the seedlings I started last year, I did manage to keep almost all of the remaining 600+ unplanted ones alive all year, in the original germination flats, root-bound, stunted, unhappy, often standing in water for days at a time, but alive nonetheless. My plan was to bring them in and overwinter them this winter in the south room intermediate (between germination and plant-out) plant stand. This would significantly reduce my seed-starting requirements for this season. Alas, within two or three days of bringing them in, some critter (I assume a rat, it's almost always a rat) found it's way into the room and mowed them all down. I'd also brought in a white cherry tomato and 5 or 6 Manzanos in 3-gal pots. It got them, too, including all the pods on one of the Manzanos I was hoping would ripen inside. The tomato subsequently died, as did 2 or 3 of the Manzanos. Two or three of them are hanging on. It also killed one of my most prized house plants. After tripping a trap twice without getting caught, and then becoming wary, I finally put out poison. I hated doing it, one, because it seems cruel, but also because I have foxes, owls and hawks around here and I'd hate to secondarily poison one of them. (I'm hoping it died under the house and will desiccate before things warm up in the spring.) In any case, the problem seems resolved for now.

After that happened, I was so down about it all, I didn't keep up with the watering and while many of the seedlings tried to sprout out and recover, I let them dry out and that is what finally killed them. Still, I have managed to keep a few alive, so if I can continue to keep them alive, I have these to start with this year, in no particular order (number of plants in parentheses):
OWs:
Primo (2)
7 Pot Peach (3)
7 Pot Brown Naga-type (3)
BJ Orange (2)
Brainstrain Red (7)
TS Yellow (5)
7 Pot Brown Best (5)
Large Yellow-orange Hab/Not GWH (4)
SB Brown (3)
7 Pot Brown Long Congo-type (5)
7 Pot Red (1)
Chocolate Barrackpore (6)
Peach Cross (3)
TS Sweet (2)
Tobago Treasure (5)
Funky Reaper (1)
Hungarian Hot (1)
Blonde (4)
BOC (1)
Bahamian Goat (3)
Goat's Weed (1)

For those interested, my 2013 Glog can be found here, and the 2014 Glog can be found here.

You can see a picture of my germination setup in this post, and a closer shot of it plus a shot of the secondary growth station in this post. The most recent germination numbers for this year can be found in this post.

My technique is crude and targeted for medium-large quantities of seeds and plants. I don't soak seeds; they get planted directly into a moist soilless mix in 72-cell inserts in standard 1020 nursery flats. Sometimes I use Fafard 3B germination mix, but this year I am using recycled Sunshine #1 mixed 3.8 cu.ft. to 3.0 cu.ft. pine bark mulch. I keep everything watered with a dilute mix of Peter's 10-20-30 water soluble fertilizer. Germinating flats are kept on heater pads and I try to keep the temperature at 82ºF. In fact, it winds up fluctuating from day to night (lights on and off) and as the temperature fluctuates outside. I actually have begun to believe a fluctuating temperature is better than a fixed temperature.

The light in the germination stand is provided by three 2-bulb T12 shop lights on each level. The bulbs are a mixture of color temperatures. The fixtures and bulbs are getting old and the lumen output has dropped below what I consider acceptable. I'll likely replace them soon (next year for sure, maybe sooner) with an equal number of T8s. In the longer run, I'm designing LED lighting for the space. Right now, the secondary growth stand doesn't have any supplemental lighting except for a couple of CFLs in reflector clamp lamps. Most of the light comes from the south-facing picture window. That's not really sufficient, but it does work. It all works well enough for me for now (knock on wood).

are you sure you didn't miss one ? lol j.k. :onfire:

Essegi · Apr 5, 2015

Sawyer said:
Hi Giancarlo, thanks for stopping by. Yes, I remember those in your glog. If I remember correctly, I think yours are Erythronium dens-canis, while mine are Erythronium albidum. I just discovered another common name for them (and maybe the preferred name) is White Fawnlily. I was out hiking today and scored another find, Erythronium rostratum, Yellow Troutlily. I took pictures, but the camera isn't in reach and I'm too tired to go get it. (Three and a half hours in rugged terrain... first outing of the year.) I'll post some pictures tomorrow. I've been looking for this one for years.

Right! I see on you photo stamens of your are yellow and mine black. Aside that they're really similar.
About last, there's some similar flower here (yellow with iirc 6 sharp petals) too but probably something not related.

PaulS · Apr 5, 2015

Soooooo many plants! I struggle to look after about 80!
They look awesomme so you definately have things under control

Sawyer · Apr 5, 2015

moruga welder said:
are you sure you didn't miss one ? lol j.k.

Well, maybe one or two.

Essegi said:
Right! I see on you photo stamens of your are yellow and mine black. Aside that they're really similar.
About last, there's some similar flower here (yellow with iirc 6 sharp petals) too but probably something not related.

I've discovered there are two more native Erythronium species here, E. americanum and E.mesochoreum. There's always something new to be on the lookout for.

PaulS said:
Soooooo many plants! I struggle to look after about 80!
They look awesomme so you definately have things under control

I have things, yes. Under control, I'm not so sure.

PaulG · Apr 5, 2015

"I'm well over 1,000 plants now" :shocked:

Pulpiteer · Apr 14, 2015

I'm struggling with just under 400. I don't know how you do it. But it is awesome.

Elvis Has Left The Forum · Apr 14, 2015

As always, very impressive, John!!! :onfire:

I meant to ask who made your .410??? Over and under, .22/.410???

Hope all is well my friend...

Sawyer · Apr 14, 2015

PaulG said:
"I'm well over 1,000 plants now"

Pulpiteer said:
I'm struggling with just under 400. I don't know how you do it. But it is awesome.

It's definitely a struggle. A lot of them of are going to go straight from the flat to dirt or larger pot, skipping the 3.5" stage.

FL Born said:
As always, very impressive, John!!!
I meant to ask who made your .410??? Over and under, .22/.410???

Hope all is well my friend...

Thanks, Bill. Hope all is well with you, as well. The .410 is a Cobray/Leinad folding-stock double-barrel. It's light @ 3 pounds and, with a skinny buttplate, packs a punch (for a .410), especially with 3" shells. I bought it for backpacking here in the Ozarks (squirrel or rabbit for dinner, anyone?), but have never used it for such. Where I go backpacking now is in the edge of grizzly country, so I carry a titanium .44 magnum w/ hardcast bullets out there (28 oz. empty), along with bear spray.

Not much to report here, pepper-wise. I simply don't have sufficient room for so many 3.5" square pots (going to have to work on that for next year) and it's still too risky to start putting them outside for good. Keeping them crowded into the germination flats makes keeping them sufficiently watered a real challenge. I've lost six plants from letting them get too dry for only about a half a day. For three, I have plenty of extras, but I also lost 3 of 4 White Tobago Treasure from Stefan (meatfreak). Given they are an unstable mutation from his 2014 grow, I'm really disappointed about losing them. Hopefully the survivor will be the one to carry the genes.

In lieu of pepper pics, here are some from a day hike I took the day before Easter:

I found a large patch of mostly non-blooming Yellow Troutlilies, Erythronium rostratum. This one was an exception.

Back at home, the lilacs are blooming out back.

I also have/had a bunch of wildflowers blooming in my backyard/garden. I posted pictures of many of these over in Mike's (capsidadburn's) Native Observations log. You can see them in this post.

Ozzy2001 · Apr 14, 2015

Wow nice nature pics.

tctenten · Apr 14, 2015

Beautiful!! I go for a nature walk and see concrete and buildings :tear:

Elvis Has Left The Forum · Apr 14, 2015

Your shotgun sounds NICE!!! I have always wanted a .22mag over .410 for backpacking... Springfield made a rifle that folded in half, they called it the M6 Scout... They are real hard to find these days...

Those photos are awesome! It looks like the weather is getting better there... Hopefully, it will warm up there soon and you can set your plants outside...
Nothing but thunderstorms here all this week... My outdoor peppers are about to sprout legs and run for cover!!! :lol:

I moved all of them, that I could, under the porch roof, but the wind blew the rain onto the porch and still drenched them.... :cry:

At least the sun is coming out for a few hours a day to dry things out some... I can't wait to get a greenhouse...

I'm sorry to hear about the Tobago Treasure plants... I too hope the remaining plant will carry the genes...
I have lost a few of my indoor seedlings, but not sure why... I'm doing some testing to see if I can narrow it down...
I am sure that they were either too dry or too wet... I will soon know which...

Have a great day, my friend!!!

Sawyer · Apr 14, 2015

Ozzy2001 said:
Wow nice nature pics.

tctenten said:
Beautiful!! I go for a nature walk and see concrete and buildings

Thanks, guys! Terry, I don't know much about Middletown, but I've seen some interesting pictures of nature reclaiming urban ruins.

FL Born said:
Your shotgun sounds NICE!!! I have always wanted a .22mag over .410 for backpacking... Springfield made a rifle that folded in half, they called it the M6 Scout... They are real hard to find these days...

Those photos are awesome! It looks like the weather is getting better there... Hopefully, it will warm up there soon and you can set your plants outside...
Nothing but thunderstorms here all this week... My outdoor peppers are about to sprout legs and run for cover!!!
I moved all of them, that I could, under the porch roof, but the wind blew the rain onto the porch and still drenched them....
At least the sun is coming out for a few hours a day to dry things out some... I can't wait to get a greenhouse...

I'm sorry to hear about the Tobago Treasure plants... I too hope the remaining plant will carry the genes...
I have lost a few of my indoor seedlings, but not sure why... I'm doing some testing to see if I can narrow it down...
I am sure that they were either too dry or too wet... I will soon know which...

Have a great day, my friend!!!

Thanks, Bill. I do like the dual chambering of the Scout. I'd also like to have one of the Henry U.S. Survival Rifles. It's single chambered in .22LR only, but it's still a cool little rifle.

Warm weather will get here eventually. Risky as it may be, as soon as the garden dries out enough, I'll start putting plants out. It rained a slow, steady drizzle all day yesterday, so it'll take a few days to dry out. I hear you about a greenhouse. I almost pulled the trigger on one of the larger HF designs, but would rather build my own. I have 16'x100' of 6 mil UV-stabilized film and a PVC-based design I've been working on.

There may still be hope for the white Tobago Treasure. The leaves are all shriveled up, but the stems are firm and lively. I'm holding out hope they put out new growth. Unless you have disease that results in damping off, I've found it's much harder to kill a pepper plant with too much water than it is with too little.

Plantguy76 · Apr 14, 2015

John if I have things figured out I have six red Brazilian Starfish, two Aji Melocoton , two Pineapple Rocoto , 1 Cherio Roxa ,13 Moa Yellow Scotch Bonnets , 6 Bahamian Goats ,5 Peach Selected Strain & 3 Stuffing Scotch Bonnets hardening off that's my first round
Second round pepper's are 8 Black Habanero, 7 SB7J (I lost one to helmet head if I remember right), 6 Hawaii Beach ,4 Cream Fatalii , 3 Moa Red Scotch Bonnet,1 Queen Laurie ,11 peach Congo (but two might have to be culled there getting out of there seedling stage ),13 Scarlett Lanterns ,5 Albanian Red Hot , 9 Potato Skin Jalapeno( Framers Market),8 Fresno ,7 Santa Fe Grande & 4 Black Hungarian .
That is not counting the tomatoes/ Tomatillos seedlings & flowers seeds that will be sowed soon
I was thinking of starting a few more seeds Ethiopian Brown Berbee
I ordered them along with Trinidad Brown Scotch Bonnet & reordered Stuffing Scotch Bonnet form Judy
The wild sweet williams are blooming now mom always says its really spring now when they bloom guess they are over there as well.
Sorry for hijacking your glog & rambling on hope your doing well things sure are ramping up now

Sawyer · Apr 14, 2015

Plantguy76 said:
...things sure are ramping up now...

Yes, they are. Looks like you've got a pretty good selection going there.

Devv · Apr 14, 2015

Well I'm still trying to get caught up with all the glogs I frequent. I don't feel like I'm making much progress though.

Plants look great John!. 1,000 plus is way over the top for me though.

Wishing you continued success!

capsidadburn · Apr 14, 2015

Love the woods hike pics John! I just pulled my Trout Lily's seeds out of their truncated cold strat. I don't really expect much from these late germing varieties til next year. Will see though.

Later

JoynersHotPeppers · Apr 14, 2015

Which week did you want me to come down and hunt and harvest? I forget

Pulpiteer · Apr 14, 2015

On the post you linked, I saw you had a Solomon's Seal. I was looking for the Giant Solomon's seal awhile back because they were supposed to be edible, the early shoots at least, and very shade tolerant. Do you have much experience with those?

Sawyer · Apr 14, 2015

Devv said:
Well I'm still trying to get caught up with all the glogs I frequent. I don't feel like I'm making much progress though.

Plants look great John!. 1,000 plus is way over the top for me though.

Wishing you continued success!

Thanks, Scott. It's hard to keep up, that's for sure. I try to keep up with the glogs I follow, but I know there are great ones here I'm missing completely.

I'm scrambling to find space for all the plants. I've got my eye on several previously untilled spots.

capsidadburn said:
Love the woods hike pics John! I just pulled my Trout Lily's seeds out of their truncated cold strat. I don't really expect much from these late germing varieties til next year. Will see though.

Later

Thanks, Mike. Do you stratify the Trout Lily seeds? I've collected those, Bloodroot, Violet, Golden Seal and more and rarely have any luck getting them to germinate. When I forget to collect, I'll often find seedlings in the patch the following year.

JoynersHotPeppers said:
Which week did you want me to come down and hunt and harvest? I forget

Hah! Come on down, Chris! Not sure when the pepper harvest will start, but legal deer season won't be 'til October (for bow hunting). I can get a depredation permit anytime, though, if the damage warrants it. The deer have gotten so bad around here, they're even talking about having a bow hunt in the city limits, or hiring professional archery hunters to thin them out. Those city folk were all, "Oh look at the pretty deer!" until the deer started eating their high-priced landscaping.

Pulpiteer said:
On the post you linked, I saw you had a Solomon's Seal. I was looking for the Giant Solomon's seal awhile back because they were supposed to be edible, the early shoots at least, and very shade tolerant. Do you have much experience with those?

Interesting you mention that, Andy. I've long been of the opinion there's no specific difference between Solomon's Seal and Giant Solomon's Seal, that it's more a matter of environment. This is based on an observation made as a kid, when my dad brought some home from the woods to plant in my mom's flower beds. The transplanted ones took off and grew to two or three times the size of the wild population in the woods. Back then, the "experts" considered them different species. Now, though, from what I've read, the Giant Solomon's Seal is considered a variety of the regular species, Polygonatum biflorum var. commutatum. Having seen the size of the rhizomes on this page leaves me not so sure. I've never seen them that large. Plus the ones I have growing in my own beds are no bigger than the woods-grown ones. If they are varieties of the same species, then I'd expect them both to be edible. The linked page above and this page both indicate the young shoots and rhizomes are edible. I've never tried them and given the leaves and berries are alleged to be poisonous and the shoot tips are bitter, I think I'll pass. Like most of the other wildflowers I've been talking about recently, they are very shade tolerant.