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Secret Project.........
- Thread starter Nigel
- Start date
Germination and the first few days possibly. I`ll see how the seeds handle it.
The colchicine I have is 95+% pure, lab grade stuff. I had 100mg and dissolved it in 1ml ethanol, then diluted that stock in purified water to get the concentrations I wanted. I do not know how much and what else there is in colchicine tablets.
The colchicine I have is 95+% pure, lab grade stuff. I had 100mg and dissolved it in 1ml ethanol, then diluted that stock in purified water to get the concentrations I wanted. I do not know how much and what else there is in colchicine tablets.
LUCKYDOG said:
First time I heard this outside the "other" growing forums.
Many (many) moons ago, I had a quad branching plant (4 nodes @ every point) from some freaky mad canna-scientist using colchicine treatments.
(Maybe also using stolen cooling pond water from Hanford
: )
Had it outside not very well hidden (aparantly) to grow large enough to clone.
Stolen.
Many (many) moons ago, I had a quad branching plant (4 nodes @ every point) from some freaky mad canna-scientist using colchicine treatments.
(Maybe also using stolen cooling pond water from Hanford
: )Had it outside not very well hidden (aparantly) to grow large enough to clone.
Stolen.
Try germinating the seed first in blotting paper or similar. Then apply the colchicine to the radical - guaranteed to interfere with it and also less risk of destroying seed viability by soaking in colchicine. One thing to remember though - polyploids don't necessarily grow faster than their diploid counterparts. I have found that they are very much slower to reach maturity.
For those of you that are interested in trying a project like Nigel's, I would recommend using Surflan, rather than colchicine, as its less toxic to use, and easier to get as its a pre-emergent herbicide. You can learn how to use it by looking up chemical mutagens for plants using Surflan, it comes under other names also and kills less of your test subjects.
I had to alter the conditions a little to make things a bot more simple, but here are the seeds after treatment with colchicine for 72 hours in the dark. I decided to soak the seeds in water for 5 days, in paper towel, so that they might germinate while sat on the colchicine. Colchicine was dissolved in sterile purified water at 1%.
Water alone,
0.025% Colchicine
0.05% Colchicine
0.1% colchicine
I rinsed the seeds gently with purified water 3 times, then sowed them in seed starting mix.
Water alone,
0.025% Colchicine
0.05% Colchicine
0.1% colchicine
I rinsed the seeds gently with purified water 3 times, then sowed them in seed starting mix.
I doubt anyone has looked at the ploidy of superhot peppers. It`s possible, but seems unlikely, given the general uniformity of the superhots. Of course, if you cross a Sweet Habanero with a Pakistani Naga, you might need the progeny to be tetraploid to get the heatGeonerd said:
I am just joking. It`s a joke. HaHaHaHa. Joke...............Polyploids tend to be very stable, unless the the extra chromosomes make the plant sick (it`s extremely rare to see octaploid plants and sexaploids are not that common, but do occur). Revertants could be selected over a number of generations, I suppose.
Side effects. In general, the side effects are larger plants/fruits/seeds, often faster growth (but not always) and higher production of plant metabolites. It`s not an easy task to proceed polyploids, though. At 0.1% colchicine, the germination rates can drop to 10-20% of the controls. Of the fewer plants you get, roughly 0-40% can be polyploid, depending on how lucky you are. Basically, it`s a numbers game. If you can treat 5000 seeds of each variety at each concentration, you are very, very likely to find some polyploids.
One potential issue is whether there might be colchicine in the fruits of the first generation, making them inedible. I`m not sure how to deal with that issue yet, but I`ll think of something.
i counted the seeds before planting and there were 29, 27, 31 and 34 seeds for each treatment. That`s 121 seeds of TSMB. It`s a lot of seeds in the general scheme of things, but for this type of experiment it`s very few indeed.
Nigel said:.
Of course, if you cross a Sweet Habanero with a Pakistani Naga, you might need the progeny to be tetraploid to get the heat
Bah hahahaha!
: In other news looks like you're off to a great start Nigel. Nicely done. More great info here too.
Ok, updates on this experiment. It`s now 7 days following treatment and the sowing into seed starter mix.
Here are the control seeds, treated with water only. So far, germination is 23/29.
This is the 0.025% colchicine, the lowest concentration. You can only see one seedling, but there are actually 6.
The other 2 concentrations of colchicine currently have no seedlings at all!!!
Obviously, this stuff is toxic!!!
Here are the control seeds, treated with water only. So far, germination is 23/29.
This is the 0.025% colchicine, the lowest concentration. You can only see one seedling, but there are actually 6.
The other 2 concentrations of colchicine currently have no seedlings at all!!!
Obviously, this stuff is toxic!!!
Nice work, Nigel! I had no idea that this sort of thing could happen. Now I'm excited to take Genetics in the future. Could definitely help with this sort of thing. What do you do to get lab access? Bribe the techs with doughnuts? I work in a university lab but nobody would just let me walk in and let me play with their multi-million dollar toys for a personal project. You're a lucky guy!
Best of luck with the .025%ers!
Best of luck with the .025%ers!
Ooh! Ooh! Oooh! I have a question, Dr. Carter! (Raises hand and lapses into a college flashback from molecular genetics…) Wouldn't the mutation have to have been induced in a parent plant's germ line in order to produce polyploid offspring? It seems like applying a mutagen to an already formed seed to produce an entirely polyploid plant would be kinda hit-or-miss. Like only a portion of the cells in the plant might end up being affected.
This makes me think of seaspring seed's giant dorset naga plant (ironically named Nigel).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bm93RBvMfc
They pulled 2407 ripe chiles off this plant at one time. Was it likely this was a polyploid plant?
I happen to have a seedling with three cotyledon, is this an indication of a polyploid plant, or should I not get too exited.
Good luck with the project, I'm looking forward to the results!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bm93RBvMfc
They pulled 2407 ripe chiles off this plant at one time. Was it likely this was a polyploid plant?
I happen to have a seedling with three cotyledon, is this an indication of a polyploid plant, or should I not get too exited.
Good luck with the project, I'm looking forward to the results!
This is what you messaged me about the other day on FB, hope it works Nigel!
I used to be on staff there, still know other Profs there and my Wife is a Lab Manager there still, so after hours I can can get access. I don`t want to push things, but bits and pieces here and there are fine.SciurusDoomus said:
Yes, it is entirely hit or miss and yes, you can get chimeras formed. That`s why the karyotyping is so important. More on tis later.dash 2 said:
It is possible this plant was a polyploid. It`s very hard to say. Nigel was certainly a big boy, that`s for sure!oboesushi said:
3 cotyledons is relatively common in pepper seedlings. I think I`ve had 15-20 of them this year, out of maybe 600-700 seeds sowed. I see no correlation with survival, size of plant, productivity or anything tangible. It happens, but I can`t explain why.
Nigel said:
Karyotyping?!
Ooooh BOY! Stuff just got real! 