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seeds Seedlings with Redish/Purple Tint on leaves, causes?

Maxsack331

Maxsack331

Hi, this is the first year I have tried starting peppers inside, and I started with my first batch of about 14 pepper plants a few weeks ago. I fried a few of them when I added the 130w XtreemeLED light to the grow area when I already had 4 CFLs in there, but most made a good recovery.

I have 2x 5-6.5k 150w equivalent CFLs, 1 on each side of the LED light that I have in the middle, here is a pic of the setup from one of the sides.
IMG_0026-1.jpg


I just replanted them yesterday into a new mix of soil with about 1 part of each about, MG potting soil, Vermiculite, Perlite, EarthGro Potting soil (dark heavy soil),(probably a little more of the MG potting mix) which is what I have, and it seems to be nice and airy compared to just using the MG potting soil or other premixed potting soils, and most of the pepper plants are doing great, even after just transplanting them.

My problem is that a few of the plants are starting to get this reddish/purple tint to them on some of the older leaves that I think is close to what happened when I added the LED light in the first time, before they fried. Some of the leaves that look really bad are the leaves that were damaged the first time, and the new leaves do not look as bad, but I think are just starting to see the first signs of that reddish coloration.

I was wondering what could be causing this, I don't think it could be too much light, especially since most of the plants that are closer to the lights are doing great, same goes for the soil. So I am thinking that maybe the 2 Tepins that I separated and the Congo Trinidad may have just been slightly damaged when re-potting them, although they might have had a slight tint to them before potting, I'm not sure..

The other thought is that I might be giving them too much water, like I said most of the plants are doing great, but I gave them a good amount of water by bottom watering them and it might just be affecting these plants more so than the other ones...

So here are the pics of the 2 plants that have the most sign for it, oh and the temp seems fine since the actual lights don't really produce any heat, and I have a fan that comes on for 30min at different intervals 7 times during the day when the lights are on. and the temp is from 80-85 about, depending on how warm the wood stove gets in the room, but I will be switching them to the front kitchen window so they can get some sunlight during the afternoon also.
(it looks a little worse in the pics I think partially due to the closeness of the pics and also the lighting in there)
IMG_0033.jpg

IMG_0032.jpg



Thanks! would really like to figure out what I am doing wrong with these plants, don't want them to die
 
Those cfls look ridiculously close to the plants. I would place them at least 4-5 inches above. But if the lights don't seem to affect the plants, it could be a nutrient issue.
 
they are about 2" or so above them, but yea I will try to move them up a little, but the strange thing is that the plants that are right under the lights are doing great, and these are further away than the other ones that are doing worse.. might be the fertilizer in the MG potting soil or something.. I am hoping in the next few days that it will go away and get better, might just be from transplanting them, some of the ones I had to separate were pretty close and they didn't have much root left to them, even though there wasn't much to begin with... since they were so small and growing right next to each other

and actually now that I think about it, the ones that are doing really well had tons of roots (for a seedling) from what I could tell
 
It's not the lights that are the issue. CFLs need to be about 2 inches away from the plant in order to be most effective. I second the nutrient issue, though as far as what, I've not a clue.
 
Potawie it's funny you say that because that is kind of what I was thinking about, because I moved the lights up a little bit, so they are about 3-4" from the top of the plant right below it, to see how they react, and one of the plants top (newest) leaves that are in the top plant pic, the one that looks healthier out of the 2, turned greener but the rest of the leaves are still a shade of purple.. and it is the Tepin and I think Congo Trinidad, and maybe one of the Caribbean Reds not sure.. but at least with the Tepins I have heard that they don't like direct/as much sunlight as the other pepper plants, so maybe that's it or did I read some random untrue statement and Tepins should be fine in full sun rather than on the outer sides of the grow light area.(for in this small area for now, it doesn't really mater much, but when I move them to the grow tent when they get bigger it would be good to know)

with the LED being so powerful and the space being so small, I will just keep the lights up a few inches above (around 3-4")and play around with them and see how it goes from there and see if they turn back to green again

and if that doesn't work, and they get worse, then I guess I will give them new soil without the MG potting soil in it.. and a quick question about the nutrients again, is it nitrogen that is more for vegging.. and then phosphate(or the 2nd number or whatever) that is more for fruiting/flowering. right, or is it the other way around?
 
Maxsack331 said:
Potawie it's funny you say that because that is kind of what I was thinking about, because I moved the lights up a little bit, so they are about 3-4" from the top of the plant right below it, to see how they react, and one of the plants top (newest) leaves that are in the top plant pic, the one that looks healthier out of the 2, turned greener but the rest of the leaves are still a shade of purple.. and it is the Tepin and I think Congo Trinidad, and maybe one of the Caribbean Reds not sure.. but at least with the Tepins I have heard that they don't like direct/as much sunlight as the other pepper plants, so maybe that's it or did I read some random untrue statement and Tepins should be fine in full sun rather than on the outer sides of the grow light area.(for in this small area for now, it doesn't really mater much, but when I move them to the grow tent when they get bigger it would be good to know)

with the LED being so powerful and the space being so small, I will just keep the lights up a few inches above (around 3-4")and play around with them and see how it goes from there and see if they turn back to green again

and if that doesn't work, and they get worse, then I guess I will give them new soil without the MG potting soil in it.. and a quick question about the nutrients again, is it nitrogen that is more for vegging.. and then phosphate(or the 2nd number or whatever) that is more for fruiting/flowering. right, or is it the other way around?
Click to expand...

Correct, nitrogen for vegging, phosphorus and potassium for flower/fruit.
 
ok cool thanks, I have to find some better fert. then when they get bigger and I report them, the MG house plant stuff is ok for the other houseplants but it's just a general use fert with even numbers, it's like 10-10-10 or something and it's used with 7 drops each time you water the plants.. (but I haven't been using it on the pepper plants yet since the MG soil has some in there already)
 
I wouldn't worry much about vegging and flowering with chile plants which grow, flower and fruit at the same time. Personally I prefer a balanced fertilizer throughout the whole growing season. I also wouldn't worry about the purpling, its a defence mechanism but doesn't really harm the plants
 
oh ok, thats good to know, thanks after seeing so many people's lush green plants on here, and even the pepper plants I've grown outside in the garden, it made me a littler nervous that something was killing them, but as long as they do well and hopefully they will look better when they grow larger
 
Maxsack331 said:
oh ok, thats good to know, thanks after seeing so many people's lush green plants on here, and even the pepper plants I've grown outside in the garden, it made me a littler nervous that something was killing them, but as long as they do well and hopefully they will look better when they grow larger
Click to expand...

Your plants are fine that looks pretty normal with strong lighting. I agree with Potawie. Are you using long light cycles of 20+ hrs?

I see "the color purple" alot in mine. I run continuous close lighting until the plants get potted up.
I drop it down for those plants and the rest of their grow to 18/6.

I also use "liquid kelp" right off the bat. That's high in "N" and minerals which could also contribute to the color variance.

Greg
 
PIC 1 said:
Your plants are fine that looks pretty normal with strong lighting. I agree with Potawie. Are you using long light cycles of 20+ hrs?

I see "the color purple" alot in mine. I run continuous close lighting until the plants get potted up.
I drop it down for those plants and the rest of their grow to 18/6.

I also use "liquid kelp" right off the bat. That's high in "N" and minerals which could also contribute to the color variance.

Greg
Click to expand...

I am using 18/6 cycle, and just switched it to 19/5 for now since I saw the post that more light when first starting out is good/ok, and I don't really want the full 20+hours mainly for electricity costs, but I may have a lot of N and fert. in there, with the combination of MG potting soil, the other potting soil that has some ferts in it, and I had a "squeeze" of MG house plant fert that is 10-10-10 to the whole 5 gallon bucket of soil that I mixed up when putting the plants into party cups, but I won't be using any more fert. till I put them in 1 gallon pots most likely since there are already plenty of time released ferts in the soil

I also just asked my biology professor that I had in college who is a botanist so I will see what he says when he hopefully gets back to me soon.. definitely good to know that they are ok though..

and the 72 other pepper plants I planted the other night and still have about 12 cells I need to fill once I get my last order of peppers in the mail. I will have them under 4 23w 5000k and 6,500k CFL lights and I will be curious to see if without the powerful LED light if they will have a slight purple tint to them or not.
 
Yup, Potawie is correct as usual ;)
It's anthocyanin, plant sun tan. It's not harmful but it is a bellwether that's telling you that's a lotta damn light! :clap: It's not harmful in the least- actually, anthocyanin has proven to be a great antioxidant. I'm fairly sure you won't be eating the leafs, but I've had anthocyanin form on fruits as well. The only 'negative' that the anthocyanin is indicative of would be that you are producing way WAY more light than the plants are using. I'd say that at that early stage with that much anthocyanin showing you could well afford to turn off a light or two and still get the same amount of growth.

Here's a Bhut Jolokia in my office that's getting a pretty good tan-
405500_10150549004376535_522391534_11152472_903739020_n.jpg


Here's a banana pepper that got a nice dose-
32522_425741606534_522391534_5892801_5172623_n.jpg
 
^^ oh great thanks! I also just heard back from my old botanist professor and he said the same thing too.. which is great, because those pepper plants I have now I am using the big LED light (suppose to be equivalent to 400w HID, and after checking my 400w HID light out tonight, I'd say it's pretty true if not almost brighter just in a much more focused area lol) and I have those 2 CFLs on the sides, so it would be hard to turn on one of the lights without taking away from some of the other plants.. although I just remembered about that light stripe on the back wall.. so I will turn that off for now..

the good thing is that I now know that with my 72 cells of peppers in the lower shelf that I planted yesterday, the 4 100w equivalent 2x6,500k and 2x5,000k CFL lights will be perfect for the way they are spaced out, then I will move them to the grow tent..


which brings me to another quick question about the lighting once I get my plants into the grow tent I just setup tonight.. I have 1 400w HID with a Virtual Sun hood, and I have no problem using that for the 4x4 area, and I intend to use my LED at some point if I need the extra light..on the side of the tent to cover a 3x3' section rated by the light, but my question is.. I have $100 gift card to amazon from Christmas, and I want to spend that on a 600w dimmable kit.. and since the prices are almost cheaper to get the whole kit.. I would get.. well the whole kit.. After seeing how the Virtual Sun hood directs the light so well.. and that it wouldn't be able to cover a whole lot more than a 4x4' section with the height I am at (the tent is 6'x6'x6' btw) and the light hangs about a foot from the top just about at the highest placement possible, or maybe I am wrong?

So would my thoughts are that, when I want to make the whole 6x6' area useable for growing when the plants get bigger and for next winter when I have full sized plants, will the 400w HID with a dimmable 600w HID with a regular cheap wing (I will get one with the cooling tube are the larger wing so I can hook it up to my exhaust vents like the hood I have now, if I can find one with a cool tube on amazon, some of the pics are hard to see if they have a tube with them) be more than enough to cover the whole tent.. I would most likely keep the 600w turned down 50%, but would like 600w if I want to use the full power for some reason.. does that sound about right? or would 2 Virtual sun kits be fine because I really like their product and if it works, I would like to get another one of those instead of the cheap wing I am just unsure as to how well the light from a more powerful bulb can be used by plants that are off to the side of the grow area, with the type of hood design for coverage (linking to pics below) or do you guys have any suggestions for what I want to achieve? Just want to figure this out before I spent anymore money..

Virtual Sun- I'm actually going to call Virtual Sun and see if they sell on Amazon, because some of their products are sold by "WholesaleDirect" and I think that just might be them, since Virtual Sun when I called about questions is actually a large hardware superstore I think kind of like a Lowes or something, if that is the case, then great
http://www.virtualsu...S400MS.asp?rt=2

Amazon kind.. something like this reflector wing with a tube if they have it... or if not then I guess just the Virtual Sun hood, can't tell if there is a tube in there or not
http://www.amazon.co...25228281&sr=8-2
or
http://www.amazon.co...25228281&sr=8-4

thanks a lot

EDIT: oh and what do you guys think about duel arc bulbs for the 600w kit.. they worth it, or just better off with 600w MH bulb.. having a hard time finding the lumen output on the duel arc bulbs.. if it is like 300w for each arc, or is it 600w output for each arc.. so like having 2 600w bulbs? or what
 
I believe its more about the spectrum of light than actually having too many hours of light. I wouldn't worry about using expensive lights unless you really want to flower indoors over the winter. Its much cheaper and more efficient to just use cheap indoor lighting for staring your season early and rely on the free spring sun for your major growth and production
 
oh ok, I may want to have them still produce some pods next winter when I bring some of them back in, but I think to keep the number of plants that I want I would end up cutting them down and just winterizing them. With just enough foliage to fill up the space outside of a 5gallon bucket's circumference and could probably keep them producing a few pods here and there which would be really cool

I'm just speculating about it and seeing what is reasonable and what isn't so I can be all prepared when the time comes to do all this stuff
 
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