So I have this urge like many of you to create my own salsas, hot sauces, and more, and sell them. But as we all know there is a LOT of red tape to go through. Someone once suggested to me to give it a way for free but accept donations that way its not technically "selling". Is this a way around a lot of the legal stuff and a way to keep my butt safe? Is there an "easy" way to getting your product out to the people? Is there an "idiots guide" to getting your product to people and understanding all the legal stuff? I know I am probably asking a lot but this is something that my friend and I would love very much to do. I know you need a certified kitchen and that there is a ph balance needed in the sauces and such so I do know some of the basics but a lot of some of the more technical stuff and legal stuff seems very overwhelming and intimidating. Any help on the questions would be greatly appreciated.
Selling food minus red tape
- Thread starter crazy8
- Start date
salsalady
Business Member
Interesting Idea-
So if someone wanted some and didn't want to give you a donation or only wanted to give you a $1 donation, would you still "give" it away? If word gets out you really are giving it away for free, there will be a long line of free-loaders looking for the handout.
IMhumbleO, you can probably do the give-away routine to friends and family, but beyond that, you'll have trouble. Stores will want it properly licensed and insured. Even farmers markets are becoming more stringent on only having licensed products for sale.
If anyone ever did get sick and wanted to make a stink, if there is evidence you took a set amount of money for a product, a court would probably rule you were selling. That sets you up for a huge liability issue. IMO, it's not worth the risk.
eBay.......well, that's a whole other can of worms. I've seen homemade sauces for sale. IMHO, it's "buyer beware" for more than just a bout of food poisoning by buying unlicensed food products of eBay.
Your local health department or state food licensing department can give you a lot of help, that's their job. Facility requirements, where to get product testing done, they probably even know of some community kitchens or other facilities that you can use to get started.
Being licensed is a good thing but it's also a hassle for some things. Every time I want to add a new product I have to have it tested and then it has to be approved by the state. I'm looking ahead at having a few "short-runs" of specialty sauces this fall with some of the fresh peppers that I will (hopefully) be harvesting. Is it worth it to spend $100 for a run that might only have a couple dozen bottles? Dunno- guess I'll make that decision when the time comes.
So if someone wanted some and didn't want to give you a donation or only wanted to give you a $1 donation, would you still "give" it away? If word gets out you really are giving it away for free, there will be a long line of free-loaders looking for the handout.
IMhumbleO, you can probably do the give-away routine to friends and family, but beyond that, you'll have trouble. Stores will want it properly licensed and insured. Even farmers markets are becoming more stringent on only having licensed products for sale.
If anyone ever did get sick and wanted to make a stink, if there is evidence you took a set amount of money for a product, a court would probably rule you were selling. That sets you up for a huge liability issue. IMO, it's not worth the risk.
eBay.......well, that's a whole other can of worms. I've seen homemade sauces for sale. IMHO, it's "buyer beware" for more than just a bout of food poisoning by buying unlicensed food products of eBay.
Your local health department or state food licensing department can give you a lot of help, that's their job. Facility requirements, where to get product testing done, they probably even know of some community kitchens or other facilities that you can use to get started.
Being licensed is a good thing but it's also a hassle for some things. Every time I want to add a new product I have to have it tested and then it has to be approved by the state. I'm looking ahead at having a few "short-runs" of specialty sauces this fall with some of the fresh peppers that I will (hopefully) be harvesting. Is it worth it to spend $100 for a run that might only have a couple dozen bottles? Dunno- guess I'll make that decision when the time comes.
salsalady said:
In some cases its actually getting easier to sell at Farmer's markets, they seem to be lifting some of the regulations making it easier to buy/sell locally. I think this is because a lot of people are demanding local foods and are willing to pay more for quality, but there is often lack of supply due to beaurocracy. With sauces there is probably very little chance of someone getting sick as long as its acidic enough. I know the sauce guy at my local market has no lawyers, inspections, or insurance although I think they all would be a good idea
Downriver
Extreme Member
Hey Crazy8,
You might want to give this a look. It's from ago, but it was posted by the boss.
http://www.thehotpepper.com/showthread.php?1301-Resources-For-Starting-Your-Food-Business
You might want to give this a look. It's from ago, but it was posted by the boss.
http://www.thehotpepper.com/showthread.php?1301-Resources-For-Starting-Your-Food-Business
The "red tape" keeps people safe. If you're serious about a business you need to be serious about doing it right. Imagine if the FDA allowed supermarket salsa to be made at home, with dirty kitchens, pets running around, and untrained bottlers.
You should be worried about keeping others safe.crazy8 said:
Oh dont get me wrong I am all about keeping others safe, I just didnt know if there was another approach of being able to get product out. It does seem like a all in or all out kind of thing. Maybe Im not explaining it right. But yeah I dont want to be getting people sick and I am grateful for the red tape in place that keeps us safe from bad food product. I am still considering it since my salsa seems to be quite a hit for those who have tried it. Thank you all again for the help and info. As always it is appreciated.
You should go to a local farmers market and talk to the vendors there and see what they do, there are different requirements for different states and for different areas within the states (stictness)... it doesnt have to be expensive to do, just to start off. A good suggestion we got was to rent a commercial kitchen from a church, we didn't do it but if you think about it, it has got to be super cheap because it isnt in high demand to rent their kitchens and they are legit. I think the main thing is WHERE it is cooked that is of importance .. as you grow the labeling requirements are important ... just make sure you list the ingredients and the last IMPORTANT thing is to purchase a PH meter .. you can get one online for about $50. Test the PH to make sure you products are shelf stablized and your good!!!
Well that is all good info. It will be more handy since I am working on my church membership right now so there is a great possibility I will be able to use it for free or even almost free. Thanks again for the info even if my friend is no longer interested I know there is a small burning part of me that kind of is. 
another option, if you are willing to shell out the money to get it started ,is find a co-packer.. they will make it in a commercial kitchen, and bottle it for you.. most will also hel o you aquire a upc code and nutrion label as well.. then you can order how much you want and sell it yourself via ebay, amazon, craigslist, to local restuarants, farmers markets, grocery store... my chef is currently working with original juan's, based out of kansas city for his bbq sauce, and it pretty satisfied so far
The organized sector is totally dominated by big money and corporate bodies which never allow small operators to enter and come up in this field.
Real creativity lies with common people who experiment and create magical formulas and recipes.
Over in India, the government has created a separate sector to encourage common man with art and ability in any sector to make, manufacture and market his product
by labeling it as "COTTAGE INDUSTRY" product.
All the state governments have their own showrooms to market such cottage industry products to encourage house wives, common man and poor people with�
such products and give them sustanence. The federal central government has a minister to look after such cottage industry.
Pickles, sherbats, candies, snackes, fried tidbits, sweetmeats, sauces, popadams, handicrafts, handlooms,sculpting, carving,etc are all covered under this 'COTTAGE INDUSTRY" label .
Poor people , housewives etc with no education or no approach to banks and other government offices , have all been immensely benefited .
I have never heard of any one dying of food poisoning after eating such product.
Unless an organized effort is undertaken by common man/woman, such thing is not possible in USA.
The organized sector wields such a power that FDA seems to be totally under influence of such people.
Some times I feel that FDA protects such money bags more than common man.
If FDA were to be truly functioning, then why there are so many recalls of drugs , food products and medicines?
THE REAL POWER, LIES WITH A COMMON CITIZEN.
IF THEY COME TOGETHER AND START A CAMPAIGN AS GANDHI JI DID,
EVEN MIGHTY EMPIRE LIKE THAT OF THE BRITISHERS HAD TO BOW
AND SURRENDER TO COMMON MAN.
Think please think.
I don't think I could disagree more! The rules are put into place to protect people, not to make "the man" a bunch of money. Ohio has loosened its rules, a bit, about what can be sold at Farmers' Markets but it still doesn't come close to "buy this at your own risk."
Anyone who wants to sell processed food can - all they have to do is go through inspections and be certified as someone providing what seems to be safe food for consumption. And this is bad? Would you prefer I be able to brew up a batch of ketchup, pour it into used 24-ounce soda pop bottles and be able to sell it to the public? Let them buy it if they want to, perhaps hoping I have used sterile equipment, cooked it to a temp that destroys all bacteria and have sealed it in a way that pathogens will not survive. Or do you favor me being able to smooth-talk someone into buying my product just because I tell them I have done the above when all I did was stick some juice and spices in a bottle and put a lid on it?
Mike
Anyone who wants to sell processed food can - all they have to do is go through inspections and be certified as someone providing what seems to be safe food for consumption. And this is bad? Would you prefer I be able to brew up a batch of ketchup, pour it into used 24-ounce soda pop bottles and be able to sell it to the public? Let them buy it if they want to, perhaps hoping I have used sterile equipment, cooked it to a temp that destroys all bacteria and have sealed it in a way that pathogens will not survive. Or do you favor me being able to smooth-talk someone into buying my product just because I tell them I have done the above when all I did was stick some juice and spices in a bottle and put a lid on it?
Mike
Sorry, people ,basically want to be successful.The common man has more ethics than corporate bodies.
If you give him/her a chance, the common man would show her mettle.
I don't think people would do anything unethical at cottage industry level.
NJA
Mike,
I still maintain that if government extends help, and some simple know how (as it is done in India), people create magic.
I will give you example of two companies.
LIJJAT PAPAD is a huge huge co operative society having a turnover of multi million rupees now.
It is a society of widowed ladies and poor ladies who started making popadams about 50 years back.
with an initial investment of less than 3 USD.
Even today, you make popadams pickles etc at home and sell it thro LIJJAT outlets under Lijjat brand name.
Read more here.
My link
The other bigger example is PATAK PICKLES of UK.
Mr. Patak , a gujarati brahmin in UK, started this corporate body as a pickle and condiments making unit at home
started by his wife an old , illiterate lady of the house.
I do not know why you seem to have mis trust in people.
But given the right help and good opprortunity, commoners can create magic.
Un emplyment problem of US can become lighter.
Take the example of SALSA LADY who is self employed. Her unit is truly cottage industry.
NJA
I still maintain that if government extends help, and some simple know how (as it is done in India), people create magic.
I will give you example of two companies.
LIJJAT PAPAD is a huge huge co operative society having a turnover of multi million rupees now.
It is a society of widowed ladies and poor ladies who started making popadams about 50 years back.
with an initial investment of less than 3 USD.
Even today, you make popadams pickles etc at home and sell it thro LIJJAT outlets under Lijjat brand name.
Read more here.
My link
The other bigger example is PATAK PICKLES of UK.
Mr. Patak , a gujarati brahmin in UK, started this corporate body as a pickle and condiments making unit at home
started by his wife an old , illiterate lady of the house.
I do not know why you seem to have mis trust in people.
But given the right help and good opprortunity, commoners can create magic.
Un emplyment problem of US can become lighter.
Take the example of SALSA LADY who is self employed. Her unit is truly cottage industry.
NJA
I believe inspection or courses are generally needed. There are a lot of stupid, or nieve people out there who at the very least need a safety/sanitary and safe processing course before they start sickening or killing people. There's enough food poisoning around these days as it is.
Now another issue that bothers me. I can buy eggs from my neighbor's farm gate but they aren't allowed to sell these eggs at farmer's markets unless the eggs are all x-rayed. So why is it safe to sell at a farm but not at a farmer's market when the concerns are exactly the same.
Now another issue that bothers me. I can buy eggs from my neighbor's farm gate but they aren't allowed to sell these eggs at farmer's markets unless the eggs are all x-rayed. So why is it safe to sell at a farm but not at a farmer's market when the concerns are exactly the same.
Sterilizing potable waters , demineralizing potable water, using huge amount of pesticides, too much disinfection of almost everything has rendered average American highly suceptible to even smallest infection growing into a major problem.
Right from childhood, a citizen has no avenue open to develop antibodies and resistence to most of the simple microbial infections.
Huge amount of population is suffering from peanut allergy, this allergy, that allergy. Recently scientists have discovered that children who eat clay from outside generally do not develop allergy to Peanuts.
I am not saying that people should live in dirty place and eat dirty food. But the fact remains that too much isolated existence (from microbes) leads to more health problems.
A human body is remarkable machine. If you throw it open to challenges, it developes ability to overcome them by itself in young age.
Let us not pamper the body too much.
Right from childhood, a citizen has no avenue open to develop antibodies and resistence to most of the simple microbial infections.
Huge amount of population is suffering from peanut allergy, this allergy, that allergy. Recently scientists have discovered that children who eat clay from outside generally do not develop allergy to Peanuts.
I am not saying that people should live in dirty place and eat dirty food. But the fact remains that too much isolated existence (from microbes) leads to more health problems.
A human body is remarkable machine. If you throw it open to challenges, it developes ability to overcome them by itself in young age.
Let us not pamper the body too much.
In Ohio, they sell eggs at Farmer's Markets. My understanding is that producers need a mobile license ($175) and their farm must pass an inspection but the eggs are not x-rayed.
During winter, one farmer (organic, free-range) sells them once a week. $37 per 12 eggs!
Mike
salsalady
Business Member
I started legally selling my product with an initial investment of less than $500. I estimate my expenses were-
$50 license
$50 insurance
$200 equipment
<$200 labels from a professional printer
I used a kitchen owned by a lady who made salad dressings. She was the sole income for her family for 15 years with her salad dressings. This was before the age of computers, so nowadays a person could get started for $300-400 using home-printed labels.
And here's another true story regarding policies, rules and safety-
Our farmers market has always had rules stating that food sellers must have a county health license before selling at the market. One day, a family shows up with a couple pots of tamales to sell and the MarketMaster lets them set up and sell. (Don't EVEN get me started as to why the MM allowed something so blatantly against the rules to even happen.......that's a whole other post......)
They did not have a license, did not have any means to keep the tamales warm, did not have a hand washing station, did not even have a bucket of bleach water.
When I approached another board member and pointed out the MM had let them set up and sell with out all this stuff or proper licensing, his reply to me was, "well, I ate one and I didn't get sick" to which I replied, "well you're just lucky!"
Let's look at that particular scenario and break it down. The family had to drive 45 minutes from where they lived to get to the market with no way of keeping the food hot. Vendors are typically at the market by 8:00am and the market sells until 12:00.
Food safety procedures require that a hot food must be kept above 140F. Anything below 140f is the danger zone. Who knows where the pork came from or how fresh the meat was. Maybe these people were really broke and bought the oldest meat in the meat case because it was past the pull date or something. Now it sits at lukewarm temps for 5 hours which is a total breeding ground for pathogens, E-coli, salmonella, etc...... And you saunter up to the stand at 12:00 and buy one of those "germ fest specials", trusting that because it's at the market, it must be OK..........
I know we like to believe that most people would not willingly set out to poison customers, but ignorance can hurt or even kill! These people had no clue as to how to safely set up to sell tamales. After I raised a huge stink with other board members, the board told the MM to tell those folks they could not sell until they got their sh!t together. And in a couple weeks they came back with a camp stove, hand washing set up, thermometer to monitor the tamale temps and a county health license. And I'm pleased to say I enjoyed several of their tamales throughout the rest of the market season.
And that whole thing about eggs, I guess if you drive to a farm you assume responsibility of what you are buying. You have the opportu8nity to look at the operation and if you don't like what you see, you can drive away. But a farmers market has to provide some level of security for their customers, so licenses are required.
Now that one guy who is selling eggs for $37/dozen???? DAAAaaaammmmmmmmnnnn! I'm in the WRONG business!
$50 license
$50 insurance
$200 equipment
<$200 labels from a professional printer
I used a kitchen owned by a lady who made salad dressings. She was the sole income for her family for 15 years with her salad dressings. This was before the age of computers, so nowadays a person could get started for $300-400 using home-printed labels.
And here's another true story regarding policies, rules and safety-
Our farmers market has always had rules stating that food sellers must have a county health license before selling at the market. One day, a family shows up with a couple pots of tamales to sell and the MarketMaster lets them set up and sell. (Don't EVEN get me started as to why the MM allowed something so blatantly against the rules to even happen.......that's a whole other post......)
They did not have a license, did not have any means to keep the tamales warm, did not have a hand washing station, did not even have a bucket of bleach water.
When I approached another board member and pointed out the MM had let them set up and sell with out all this stuff or proper licensing, his reply to me was, "well, I ate one and I didn't get sick" to which I replied, "well you're just lucky!"
Let's look at that particular scenario and break it down. The family had to drive 45 minutes from where they lived to get to the market with no way of keeping the food hot. Vendors are typically at the market by 8:00am and the market sells until 12:00.
Food safety procedures require that a hot food must be kept above 140F. Anything below 140f is the danger zone. Who knows where the pork came from or how fresh the meat was. Maybe these people were really broke and bought the oldest meat in the meat case because it was past the pull date or something. Now it sits at lukewarm temps for 5 hours which is a total breeding ground for pathogens, E-coli, salmonella, etc...... And you saunter up to the stand at 12:00 and buy one of those "germ fest specials", trusting that because it's at the market, it must be OK..........
I know we like to believe that most people would not willingly set out to poison customers, but ignorance can hurt or even kill! These people had no clue as to how to safely set up to sell tamales. After I raised a huge stink with other board members, the board told the MM to tell those folks they could not sell until they got their sh!t together. And in a couple weeks they came back with a camp stove, hand washing set up, thermometer to monitor the tamale temps and a county health license. And I'm pleased to say I enjoyed several of their tamales throughout the rest of the market season.
And that whole thing about eggs, I guess if you drive to a farm you assume responsibility of what you are buying. You have the opportu8nity to look at the operation and if you don't like what you see, you can drive away. But a farmers market has to provide some level of security for their customers, so licenses are required.
Now that one guy who is selling eggs for $37/dozen???? DAAAaaaammmmmmmmnnnn! I'm in the WRONG business!
Salsalady,
Yes, even cottage/Home industry licence is given by Indian government. The inspector satisfies himself that proper sanitation guidelines are followed and the process of making the product and eventually selling the product is properly followed. They even are schooled on these things by their inspectors who have printed guidelines.
Except street vendors , evry type of industry connected with food is regulated.
If you eat at the stall of street vendor, you are doing at your own risk.
NJA
Yes, even cottage/Home industry licence is given by Indian government. The inspector satisfies himself that proper sanitation guidelines are followed and the process of making the product and eventually selling the product is properly followed. They even are schooled on these things by their inspectors who have printed guidelines.
Except street vendors , evry type of industry connected with food is regulated.
If you eat at the stall of street vendor, you are doing at your own risk.
NJA