Size Matters!!!

[Mamsoth]

I was just sitting here wondering if my plants are stunted (or to rephrase that, I know they are, just wondering by how much), the majority of my plants are 8-10 wks old, 4-6 inches tall with 3-4 sets of leaves. Noobishly I left them out in the garden for an hour a few weeks ago and they got owned by the sun, I think thats set them back a fair bit.

The weather here in Kent is ususally not so great and out of necessity I have to put my plants on a North facing windowsill, not ideal but thats how it is. So I was thinking it might be quite beneficial to see some pics of everyones pride and joys with a date when they were planted, just to help me and other newcomers get an idea on how their growth stacks up compared to others.

Feel free to include a little info on variety, height, setup, climate that sort of thing...


Matt

 

[Maxsack331]

cool thread, I actually was wondering what the time line of my plants are going to be, since I started some really early, and I have a smaller.. well semi small batch of them that are just getting their 2nd set of true leaves... I will edit this now with all the pictures and dates, and at the end.. or maybe beginning I will give the info on everything.. since it will take a while, and be really long lol, it is cool to see the growth sometimes after only a week. even though I stunted the crap out of my first set of plants by just trying to figure out what I was doing.

Ok so instead of doing all that I had before since it is really long, I will just save it for when I do my "plant timeline" since I didn't have a glog this year, but I will post the dates that I planted up and started, and one pic of them now.

I did a lot of learning through this process and should be able to tell lol

Dec 11, 2012
Planted my first set of plants, "test group" to see how I would do with them before the other groups of plants..

Dec 16, 2012
got the LED, but was frying them so backed it off a little.

Dec 27, 2012
Transplanted first group into party cups, or sometime around then, still had LED, but was frying the leaves, so took it out soon after, and planted 2nd set of peppers around now.

January 16th, 2012
Transplanted 1st group of peppers into 1 gallon pots, transplanted 2nd group into solo cups and put into grow tent with 400w HID MH, I had some issues up until a few weeks ago with edema that stunted the first group really badly, especially since I screwed around with them and took the big "sucker" leaves off of them after reading a thread on here.. without enough sun light and since the peppers are close together, the new leaves haven't really grown much on the stem of the plants, but there is plenty of growth on the tops, they had plenty of time from when I did it, but won't be doing it next year.
and I put them up on tables after this pic and put a small space heater to keep the temps above 72 at "night" and in the "day" time the temps would get up to around 80-82 or so.. really humid until I changed things around.

I also had to re-pot everything because the soil mix I used (mixed my own) but it had too much "fine" vermiculite that I didn't wet before mixing it, and was preventing the water from soaking into the soil/cups, so I did it all over again a week later with a bunch of added perlite, because it caused some really bad edema and was killing the small plants

February 21-22, 2012
Transplanted 2nd group into 1 gallon pots, and can see the first group of plants without most of their bottom leaves that I had taken off.. oh well, I also took the table out since I didn't want it in there.. didn't make sense to have it in there.. and so I could move the light closer with all of them on even ground

March 23, 2012
I had planted a 3rd set of plants, most have a few sets of true leaves, I had left for a long weekend, and they dried out really badly, and I lost about 1/2 of the plants that I had, so that is why some are bigger than others, the others I planted once I got back... but they caught up pretty fast
With both the 3rd and 4th set of plants I had played around with adding a little bit of crumbled perlite and a tiny bit of fine vermiculite, 3rd set with smaller perlite particles, and 4th set with less of everything.. both with Hoffman's seed starter as the base.

and at this point I had also planted a 4th set of plants also with a bunch of them having came up with some tomato plants as well

and the other plants which I had realized they were not getting enough ferts, the bone and blood meal I had in there were not breaking down fast enough, and so I started using liquid ferts as well at low strength during watering to help with the yellowing of leaves, and the bottom leaves from falling off. and still some edema with the annuums, change the fans around and stuff again, and left the top zipper of the tent open to allow more air flow

(Edit: notice the basil in the left corner, that is just 1/2 of it, that is the same basil from the first tent pic (4th pic overall) lol, it's crazy big)

 

[meinchoh]

I doubt that an hour in the sun will do any long term damage to them. I'm sure that the leaves were a bit droopy when you got to them, right? Did they (the leaves) perk up after bringing them in out of the sun?

 

[Maxsack331]

wow, I had just about finished everything, had 1 more "date" update to do with pics.. .and I pressed the wrong damn button and backed out of the page ... I am going to take a little break.. since I just realized that it took me just about 2 hours to get all the pics organized and everything.. what a huge PITA

I doubt that an hour in the sun will do any long term damage to them. I'm sure that the leaves were a bit droopy when you got to them, right? Did they (the leaves) perk up after bringing them in out of the sun?

and if I remember correctly he had them in another thread, with sunburn spots on them, and I noticed with the peppers that were grown under T8 lights from someone I got locally, they were pretty quick to burn when putting them under the CFL lights+ sun and the LED lights in the basement that I have mine under.. but mine do fine

 

[FireDragon]

Mamsoth, are you in Kent,WA?

 

[Maxsack331]

It said I had too many images, so here is the 2nd half of the mini timeline

A week later the plants were doing much better after the change to allow for more air flow, (of "fresh" air) and added liquid ferts

March 31, 2012
Got to spend some time on my birthday to transplant the 4th set of plants into solo cups, and had some added plants that I got from Orangehero locally.
Here are some pics that I took 2 days ago of the transplants and stuff, forgot to take them before

3rd set

4th set- really growing fast, had sets of true leaves coming out well by the 4th day after sprouting on everything, and have 2nd set on most now.. (added Mykos to this set in the soil as seedlings so curious to see the roots when I transplant them, I added Mykos to the 2nd set of plants when they went into gallon pots, seem to be doing well.. and the 3rd set when they went into solo cups)

and the tent pic from 3/28 of 1st and 2nd set: they grow a little taller each day and have been through a bunch of edema problems and fungus gnats and other things that were caused by me, but oh well, learned my lessons, next year should be much better... and they are under a 600w HID MH now.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

They're not going to grow that fast with just winter/early spring window light, especially in a north facing window.

Here is a picture of some of mine taken today, most of them germinated very late February/early January, so most are about 2 months old...

I used Jiffy seed starting mix on some, Miracle Gro seed starting mix on others, and didn't like either mix. The Jiffy especially holds water very poorly. Should have used Pro-Mix but it wasn't being sold here at the time. They had aphids earlier in the year so they've been beat up a little, but still pretty good size. Most of these have been root bound for a couple weeks, just got around to potting them up today. Almost all are chinenses and grown under T5s. They're in 3.25" pots here and got their first feeding about a week ago. A few in the back are wilted from lack of water since I've been gone for a few days.

 

[Maxsack331]

yeah, it's really about the amount of light they get for growth.. at least if you have everything else under control, I have noticed that even with all my damage that I caused my plants and a lot of set-backs from almost killing them a couple times, that it's about 1 month or a little less between potting up from seedlings to solo cups to 1 gallon pots.. in general

 

[zappa883]

All of mine are still under t5 , what u feeding them as I'm seeing some leaf crinkle but all are still growing. No leaf crinkle in that pic ?

 

[Maxsack331]

All of mine are still under t5 , what u feeding them as I'm seeing some leaf crinkle but all are still growing. No leaf crinkle in that pic ?

for who?.. since I don't see a pic from the OP..which actually I think he should add some even though I think he had a different thread on it.. but mine as well post the dates and pics on this thread too Mamsoth


mine have all had problems with edema which I think is a big part of the problem with the crinkling maybe I don't really know.. maybe not, but once I realized they were not getting enough ferts about.. 2 weeks ago I think, I started giving them 1/4 strength if not more like 1/6, MG indoor plant potting fert, which is 10-10-10, recommends 7 drops every watering for indoor plants for every quart of water, I calculated that out to be about 134 drops per gallon, but 34 drops is around 1/4 per 5 gallons, so I put like.. 2 tsp in or something, and I got Cal-Mag also around the same time, and have been using the recommended dose of 1tsp per gallon every feeding.. but a couple of the plants have a tiny bit of fert burn, so I am going to back off on the ferts for every other watering, but I just got some Fox Farm tiger bloom and will be using that instead of the MG plant fertilizer, with the Cal-Mag.. so that instead of the 2-8-4 of the tiger bloom, it should be around 4-8-4 with the Cal-Mag added

 

[Mamsoth]

I doubt that an hour in the sun will do any long term damage to them. I'm sure that the leaves were a bit droopy when you got to them, right? Did they (the leaves) perk up after bringing them in out of the sun?

They were really droopy, thankfully they did perk back up but now most of the leaves are white and purple and look very far from healthy

At least they're all still alive, no mortalities yet

Mamsoth, are you in Kent,WA?

Hi FD, no I'm in the garden of England mate, the picturesque county of Kent

for who?.. since I don't see a pic from the OP..which actually I think he should add some even though I think he had a different thread on it.. but mine as well post the dates and pics on this thread too Mamsoth

I can't unfortunately, my camera phone is out of batt and the charger is busted, I need to get a new charger but until then I am un contactable and also without camera I should be able to get some pics up early next week with a bit of luck.

Wow Max , so many plants! It looks like a little chilli forest! They look like they're doing well and I can definately say that mine are very stunted in comparison. As Avon said, they were never going to experience triffid-like growth positioned where they are with our lack lustre weather the way it is.

I'm just waiting till the last frost has passed so I can get 'em out into the raised bed in the garden. I think they could do with being potted up a size but I just don't have the space. So I'm just really hoping the weather improves.

I also had a problem with fungus gnats but they appear to be subsiding now, possibly because Ive been bottom watering for awhile. I do have another question, is it possible to overwater even when bottom watering? For ages I heard it was not possible, now I'm hearing different

Thanks for all the brilliant input so far everyone

Matt


***Found an old charger, here are some pics of my unhealthy plants , fyi the camera is incredibly poor quality hence the blurriness of the images ***

This'un is a bhut that germinated in the middle of feb.

Same plant different angle.

Another Bhut, same age.

And another...

A Butch T that germinated around the end of feb.

Same plant different angle

And the rest of the windowsill gang, a right sorry lot they look but I'm hoping once I get them fully hardened off and outside they'll get going proper...

As you can plainly see, they don't look great, although its only in the last week or two that they've gotten this bad, any advice at this point would be appreciated. Think my main problems r overwatering and trying to harden them off too quickly and alternating between too much sun and too much wind/ low temps as the English weather always likes to keep us guessing

***Not sure why the pics have come out sideways, I put them upright on photobucket but they're still sideways, oh well, you get the idea anyway***

 

[Maxsack331]

yeah you will be more than fine, I don't know why I didn't post these before, (edit: about the TS and Jamaican Hot chocolate that I will tell you about below, and tried to break it up a little so it's easier to read) well actually I was going to mention them, but after I backed out of the page after typing and linking all of the pics the first time.. the 2nd time I just flew through it kind of lol..

a.) but first off, YES you can over water by bottom watering, I personally like top watering just because I can measure how much is going it, and I just check the weight, I also think it gives the soil a more even distribution of water since I'm not sure how much water is being soaked in from the bottom.. .+I mainly do it because I don't have a ton of bottoms for the pots,and I don't want to flood the tent lol), but I do have gnats, you should get some mosquito dunks (or they have the little BTI packets that are cheaper, they are the same thing just not all stuck together into a "dunk", just put like 1/4 into a bucket when you water, or have a big empty juice jug, or old vinegar jug with water and let them soak, and they will sink in to the bottom after a day or so and just try not to pour them out when you are watering.. but check the weight, and don't let water sit on the bottom after.. like 30min or something like that, just come back and dump the extra water out..

b.) it seems that the yellowing is a mixture of maybe over watering and the sun.. you can definitely tell the sun got to it.. but if your letting them dry out before watering again.. then it's probably just the sun.. just something to check out.

c.) and also what are you feeding them? anything? just something good to rule out or check on..

d.) with the sunlight/burning, I would really try to get a CFL light even.. just 1 or 2 CFL lights with the shop light hangers on them or something like that, just so you can put them above them for a few weeks before they go outside..I only say CFL lights and not a flouro tube because I have noticed after getting some plants from orangehero who kept them under the T8 tubes, that even though they grow great, they really are susceptible to burning.. and my seedlings are in the shelf, with 4 CFL lights, and they have a southern facing window.. I used the light meter and they get A LOT of light.. more than the tent does by far.. about 30-50,000 lumens in the winter.. I haven't check it in the last month or so.. should be more now on sunny days.. but that way I can just not worry about the plants too much when they go outside, and they transition easier.. or you could just cart them in and out starting at an hour a day or something, and going up from there... but I personally would rather just get 1 or 2 100w equivalent (I think they are 26w) CFL in 5,000 or better yet 6,500k and just put them above a few of your plants when you wake up and turn them off when you go to sleep, before you start to move them outside, then move that group outside more and more, and then do the next set of plants.. that may sound like too much, but I personally would rather just get something I can control inside and not have to worry about them later as much..

Wow Max , so many plants! It looks like a little chilli forest! They look like they're doing well and I can definately say that mine are very stunted in comparison. As Avon said, they were never going to experience triffid-like growth positioned where they are with our lack lustre weather the way it is.

lol thanks, I started a lot more than I planned, I wanted only about 60 at first.. now I have about 80 in the tent.. or more including the party cups, and about... 80+ seedlings/party cups outside the tent.. but a total of about 180, and I only have room for about 100 in the garden, so they will be going around the house lol, keeping 20 for overwinters though. Its my first year growing inside early like this so I'm happy with them.

--and just to show you how they can recover so well, here is a pic of a Trinidad scrop that I had, which looked like this since seedlings, I have no clue why, maybe it was a virus or something because it didn't spread to any other plant that it was close to, but I had sprayed it with a water/vinegar solution to try to kill whatever it was, that didn't work, so then I took all the bad leaves off except for the new growth, that didn't help.. and once it grew back it's new leave again..and then I put it in the basement under the LED for a while, in it's own little container in 60-65 degree temps, which seemed to kill whatever it was after a couple weeks.. but it hadn't really grown much at all with all my abuse. and then I soaked the soil with a water vinegar mix to kill any fungus that was growing a little bit from a dead leaf on top of the soil/chips when I had put them back into the tent lol.. so once I ruined the soil, I transplanted it, and a Jamaican hot chocolate that actually started to show the same symptoms eventually..

but here are the pics of the TS at the beginning when I realized something was definitely wrong, and then what they look like as of a few days ago, the TS on the top and the Jamaican hot chocolate on the bottom (which I wish I had a pic of that, because that guy was really really stunted.. it was only 3-4" tall after about 2 months, and really skinny, and the stem was really weak.. but it's awesome now.) so you will be fine, just need to give them a little help

e.) Oh and also the pics not coming up on the page correctly, I know what you mean, I think it has to do with the size/width of the pic, where it won't fit right on the site.. I dono really, but it happens to me too.

Before- and these are the same "age" as all the other plants in the tent. from the 2nd group of seedlings. and now they are great, but still only about 8-12" tall or so.. but they are putting on an inch or 2 a week at the least.. they are growing very fast.

After- the white stuff on the leaves is some Cal-Carb stuff I got from Xtreme Gardening care package that I was giving a shot

 

[Mamsoth]

a.) but first off, YES you can over water by bottom watering, I personally like top watering just because I can measure how much is going it, and I just check the weight, I also think it gives the soil a more even distribution of water since I'm not sure how much water is being soaked in from the bottom.. .+I mainly do it because I don't have a ton of bottoms for the pots,and I don't want to flood the tent lol), but I do have gnats, you should get some mosquito dunks (or they have the little BTI packets that are cheaper, they are the same thing just not all stuck together into a "dunk", just put like 1/4 into a bucket when you water, or have a big empty juice jug, or old vinegar jug with water and let them soak, and they will sink in to the bottom after a day or so and just try not to pour them out when you are watering.. but check the weight, and don't let water sit on the bottom after.. like 30min or something like that, just come back and dump the extra water out..

That is really good to know, I only started bottom watering in the first place to try and get the fungus gnats under control but now I think I'll go back to top watering. I'll look into the dunks to, although happily the gnats are alot less numerous than they were .

c.) and also what are you feeding them? anything? just something good to rule out or check on..

I feed them with a half strength of chilli focus every 5-7 days, but I'll definately be letting them dry off a bit now b4 their nxt watering.

d.) with the sunlight/burning, I would really try to get a CFL light even.. just 1 or 2 CFL lights with the shop light hangers on them or something like that, just so you can put them above them for a few weeks before they go outside..I only say CFL lights and not a flouro tube because I have noticed after getting some plants from orangehero who kept them under the T8 tubes, that even though they grow great, they really are susceptible to burning.. and my seedlings are in the shelf, with 4 CFL lights, and they have a southern facing window.. I used the light meter and they get A LOT of light.. more than the tent does by far.. about 30-50,000 lumens in the winter.. I haven't check it in the last month or so.. should be more now on sunny days.. but that way I can just not worry about the plants too much when they go outside, and they transition easier.. or you could just cart them in and out starting at an hour a day or something, and going up from there... but I personally would rather just get 1 or 2 100w equivalent (I think they are 26w) CFL in 5,000 or better yet 6,500k and just put them above a few of your plants when you wake up and turn them off when you go to sleep, before you start to move them outside, then move that group outside more and more, and then do the next set of plants.. that may sound like too much, but I personally would rather just get something I can control inside and not have to worry about them later as much..

You know, I've been looking into getting some lights set up, but I'm too strapped for cash at the moment, the cheapest lights I've found r about £30 per light and a tenner for the hangers, it is something I'm thinking about though.

That was a great recovery on your scorpion, what a dramatic turn around, I hope mine can do the same. Less watering and a more gentle, slow hardening off process I think.


Thanks for the help/advice mate, really appreciate it.

 

[Maxsack331]

no problem at all, glad to help, and yeah that TS is a favorite, it might not be as big as the others in the end, but it is hauling @$$ to try to catch up lol, just glad i didn't toss it

and your feeding seems fine and all that, and you should be all set with everything else, you can get the dunks and stuff at Walmart even, the little packets that I got (same thing as dunks like I said) are like $9 for a bunch of them, and you won't need anymore till at least sometime next year, it is a really good thing to use just to keep killing them so they don't bounce back, I forgot to use the dunks for a week or so when I was trying to figure some other things out, and they started to come back really fast.

and as far as the lights, it doesn't have to be much, like I said, the flouro tubes are great for when they are small, but to help harden them off, you might just be better going and getting a shop light (the dome things with the clamps, they are like $3 at Lowes or Home Depot or anything like that) and then just get 1 100w eq. CFL in 6,500k which will be around $5-6... and just use it on one or 2 plants at a time with the window light and then move those plants out after a week or that or something.. just for now if you want but yeah your plants should be perfectly fine, but just make sure that all of the leaves are not burned/falling off, for the ones that are really bad just don't put them out in the sun for a while until they get new growth going again, but as long as you have new/good leaves growing your good

but for later even my light set up is just a couple of those hanging with tape/sticky tabs from a shelf lol, and it gives a lot more light than the flouro tubes, so getting one now might just be in the right direction for when you get other light setups for next time around... and when you do get to that, I would personally go check out AJ and the vanity lights he has set up, with 4 or 5 sockets for CFL lights and do it that way, and you can get some good coverage that way with a lot of light, but you can worry about that later, just check things out when you get to that. just something to think about