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Some confusion about brine types

Hey folks,
 
First post, long time lurker!. I've been doing a nauseating amount of reading online for info on lacto-fermenting peppers and hot sauce making. Its been difficult to gather all of the little bits and pieces of information that seem so scattered around the internet but I've kept my notes fairly organized. So far I'm on my 12th fermentation batch (all sliced peppers, no mashes) and have pretty much learned that not everything is written in stone when you're working with a 2-10% window of brine creation. I know 10% is on the high end and is used for mashes, but it's worth mentioning. From reading through many different how-to guides and recipes, I've defined four different methods of brine creation (I don't know if anyone has used these terms before but if they have, I didn't mean to copy):
 
Exclusive Brine: Water weight used to calculate desired salt %, then added to veggies
Example: Achieve a 3.5% brine by dissolving 6 grams salt to every cup of water necessary to top off container. Then pour over peppers. Pepper weight/volume not taken into account.
 
Volume Inclusive Brine: Combined water + veggie volume used to calculate desired salt %
Example: Jar is packed with sliced peppers and topped to desired height with unsalted water. Peppers and water together take up 3 cups of volume in a quart jar. Water is strained, 18 grams of salt is dissolved to make a 3.5% inclusive brine, then re-added to the jar.
 
Weight Inclusive Brine: Combined water + veggie weight used to calculate desired salt %
Example: Vegetables are weighed before being put into the jar. The jar is packed with sliced peppers and topped to desired height with unsalted water. Water is strained, weighed, and then the total weight of the peppers + the water weight is calculated. This total weight is then multiplied by 0.035 and the new number is then the amount of salt dissolved to make a 3.5% inclusive brine. Salt is added to the water and then the water is re-added to the jar.
 
Self (Dry) Brine: Veggie weight used to achieve desired salt %. Salt draws liquid from veggies to create its own brine
Example: Veggies are weighed, then processed/diced. The total weight of the peppers is multiplied by 0.10 (10% dry brine) to calculate the salt you have to add. The pepper mash is added to the jar in layers while salt is added and coaxed into the mash with a pressing motion using a non reactive spoon.
 
 
The two inclusive brines probably sound way too complicated but I kept reading recipes saying that pepper weight/volume needed to be taken into account when calculating the brine. The examples are the only way I could think of to easily/accurately do this. So far I've tried every sort of brine and each one ferments as well as the other. The only difference is the amount of salt content that sits inside each jar. 
 
Maybe an inclusive brine would be better for vegetables with a higher water content? Or maybe just stick to an exclusive brine because it still works and is less to think about. I think I'm going to do that.
 
I hope that's not all too confusing. I was confused when I first started out because I thought the % had to be dead on for it to work. Then I learned that it's a pretty forgiving figure. At least for sliced pepper ferments. I'm not a fan of mashes.
 
Thoughts?
 
First off welcome to THP.


There are many here that make their own sauces. Some professionally.

There will no doubt be folks here to help you on you quest towards the perfect combination.

:welcome:
 
Man all of that sounds complicated. I used to weigh my product, all of it and then make a six percent solution off of that weight.

Now I just fill a jar ( if its a quart I use a tablespoon of salt and two tablespoons of brine i have in the fridge that i saved from earlier batches ) added before I add the water.

If its in a half gallon jar I use a 1 1/2 tablespoons of salt and 3 tablespoons of brine.

My jars contents are usually floating and pushed up and bubbling within a day to a day and a half.

I just played around with it until I found what works. Like recess instead of science class.
 
Greetings and Welcome Big Al,
Personally, I have never heard of anyone weighing the water before. But not saying its not been tried....
Any method/recipe I have been taught, researched and/or used was a ratio of salt to ingredients "minus the liquid".
 
I have achieved that by either weighing the ingredients (minus the liquid) and then the salt, and layering / mixing the salt into the solid ingredients.....
or
creating a brine by dissolving a pre-measured (weight is the most reliable) amount of salt for what ever percentage is desired.
 
The latter method is by far the easiest to accomplish, and IMO the most commonly used because of the ease and more uniform distribution of salt throughout.
 
About the only time I add salt directly to the ingredients anymore, is when I'm fermenting cabbages, and that's because I'm going to be physically pounding the cabbage leaves. The course salt crystals helps to break down the leaves and aid in the release of juices and "self brining" qualities of cabbage.
 
The amount of salt (ratio) is highly dependent upon individual taste....and the ingredients being fermented. BUT keeping in mind, that excessive salt levels will not only impede with the growth molds and the bacteria that leads to spoilage, but can also interfere with the early development and growth of the lactic acid bacteria.
I seldom do more that a 3.5 % brine... much more and it risks becoming a "salt cure" rather than a ferment.
 
Here is a helpful chart from a commercial company that you might not have seen.
They also include some suggested brine % for particular ingredients.
http://www.pickl-it.com/blog/636/brine-recommendations/
 
And here's a couple THP brine posts from a while back:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/23146-fermenting-peppers-101/page-2#entry481755
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/23146-fermenting-peppers-101/page-2#entry481769
 
Hope this helps
CM
 
Big Al here are my latest ferments. This is after four days. 
 
79ixfU4.jpg

 
 
 
 
in my opinion, the easiest way to do it is to treat it like you're making natural pickles. 5.0% brine for full sour (50g salt per liter of water) or 3.5% for half-sour (35g salt per liter of water), pre mixed salt with distilled water (you can probably use tap without issue) and just add that to the jar with the cut peppers. this is how I've done each of my fermented sauces and it seems to be working great.
 
For fermenting veggies, I always went the "exclusive brine" method.  I never came across the others until I started in on the hot sauce/pepper mash recipes.  I can see some advantage to "weight inclusive" . . for example, if the veggies have a lot of water content, the brine is being diluted.  However I think for simplicity's sake and the small batch sizes we are most likely working with, a 3.5-5 exclusive brine should work great.
 
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